# Why are "based on a true story" movies so arbitrarily fictionalized? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 3, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522 "2015-06-03T12:30:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/41 "2015-06-04T17:23:24Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > “Argo” pissed off all of Canada. The story would have been just as dramatic if it stuck to the truth, but instead the CIA had to play the central role with Canadian Ambassador Ken Taylor taking the back seat. I haven’t seen the movie because of all the inaccuracies I’ve read about it. I’d be embarrassed to watch it. The Canadian embassy was responsible for freeing those hostages. The fictional story directed by Ben Affleck was a slap in the face to Canadians. Yes, I know. All visitors to my home are instructed to _never_ mention this movie (among other things that piss off Canadians) in front of my Canadian wife. Otherwise, that’s all we’ll talk about for the rest of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/42 "2015-06-04T17:51:12Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Some great examples of what I’m talking about, like Connecticut’s vote in Lincoln depicted incorrectly for no good plot purpose, and LBJ being portrayed as the “Bad Guy” in Selma, when in fact he was highly supportive of MLK and the Civil Rights movement. Personally, the misrepresentations that bother me the most, whether in a movie that’s based on a true story or just on a (fictional) book, are those that misrepresent character, especially if they portray people as somehow worse than they really were. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/43 "2015-06-04T18:02:07Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > […] > Einstein has to punch his co-pilot Oppenheimer (who is a Russian spy) into unconsciousness… Geez! Who was the technical adviser for this movie-- Edward Teller?! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/44 "2015-06-04T18:06:23Z")
The great thing about Canadians is how they can take a punch! ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/45 "2015-06-04T18:09:36Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The great thing about Canadians is how they can take a punch! Never mind that–beware how they can GIVE one! ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/46 "2015-06-04T18:52:30Z")
But there were no Germans in the Imitation game movie , they needed a bad guy who was right there in the project. Another example : In the movie Rudy , the coach was made out to be the bad guy who only played Rudy when he was forced to by the other players. In reality he was very much behind letting Rudy play. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/47 "2015-06-04T19:50:47Z")
Speaking of Germans, the 1960 British film _Sink the Bismarck!_ has always interested me. For reasons of needing a villain, again, the German admiral in command of the Bismarck, Gunther Lutjens, is portrayed as the stereotypical ardent Nazi, bragging about how much the Fuhrer respects him and confident that this mission will bring greatness both to himself and to the Nazi cause. In reality, Admiral Lutjens was a much more nuanced figure. He never joined the Nazi party, and seems to have disapproved of Hitler’s policies. He pointedly refused to give the Nazi salute when Hitler visited the Bismarck before its launch, using the traditional naval salute instead. He publicly protested the violence of the Kristallnacht, refused to enforce the Nuremburg laws for those under his command, and his wife had Jewish ancestry. He was also deeply pessimistic about the success of the Bismarck’s mission. I’m not claiming Lutjens was any sort of hero–after all, however much he may have disapproved, he did fight for Nazi Germany when he might have resigned his commission–but he was certainly not the cliched ranting Nazi that the movie shows us. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/48 "2015-06-04T19:56:31Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > They needed a villain? The Germans were right there across the channel. > > It was like making a movie about the Manhattan Project, except making Einstein in charge of the Manhattan Project, and have Einstein overrule Truman on dropping the bombs, and have Einstein fly the Enola Gay over Hiroshima, and have the bomb not work at the last minute so Einstein has to punch his co-pilot Oppenheimer (who is a Russian spy) into unconsciousness and crawl out into the bomb bay and cut the red wire in time to drop the bomb on the massive Japanese battle fleet that’s about to sail forth to attack America. Stop giving them ideas! Oh, and the plane isn’t Enola Gay, but actually Anne Smith (or whatever) - renamed for the mistress of the studio exec that greenlit the movie. And the plane is pulling a giant American flag behind it when it drops the bomb. A 50 star flag. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/49 "2015-06-04T20:10:37Z")
One of the Chrises should play Einstein of course. Pine, Pratt, Hemsworth, or Evans, it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/50 "2015-06-04T20:15:34Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > […] > > Oh, and the plane isn’t Enola Gay, but actually Anne Smith (or whatever) - renamed for the mistress of the studio exec that greenlit the movie. > > And the plane is pulling a giant American flag behind it when it drops the bomb. > > A 50 star flag. I had suspected that movie executives were dissipated and stupid. Now I’m convinced of it. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/51 "2015-06-04T20:17:07Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > “Argo” pissed off all of Canada. The story would have been just as dramatic if it stuck to the truth, but instead the CIA had to play the central role with Canadian Ambassador Ken Taylor taking the back seat. I haven’t seen the movie because of all the inaccuracies I’ve read about it. I’d be embarrassed to watch it. The Canadian embassy was responsible for freeing those hostages. The fictional story directed by Ben Affleck was a slap in the face to Canadians. The worst thing about Argo…unlike most films that rewrite history, it originally explicitly called the reality a political lie. After getting criticism (including from Mendez, himself), they rewrote that postscript, but… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/52 "2015-06-05T10:47:23Z")
Here’s A E Larsen’s three part essay on “Why They’re No Such Thing as a Historically Accurate Movie”: > **[Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 1](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-1/)** > > So I’ve said a couple times that there is no such thing as an historically-accurate movie, and it’s time for me to start explaining what I mean by that. And let’s use that most irritating of histor… > **[Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 2](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-2/)** > > Last time I laid out an argument that there is no such thing as an historically accurate movie because film requires far too many concessions to literary devices such as plot and narrative and main… > **[Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 3](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-3/)** > > Ok, so I’ve explained why the concept of an historically accurate movie doesn’t work, here and here. But this would seem to contradict the purpose of this blog,… which points out: > [@](#): > > he point I am making is not that there is no reason to be interested in historical accuracy in film, but rather that asking “Is this film historically accurate?” isn’t really the right question to ask. All historical films are inaccurate; that’s just a given. The question we should always be asking instead is “why is this film being inaccurate about some things and not others?” This question asks us to analyze a film, the intentions of the screenwriter and the director, and the overall message the film is offering to the viewers. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/53 "2015-06-05T13:43:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Here’s A E Larsen’s three part essay on “Why They’re No Such Thing as a Historically Accurate Movie”: > > [Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 1 | An Historian Goes to the Movies](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-1/) > [Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 2 | An Historian Goes to the Movies](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-2/) > [Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 3 | An Historian Goes to the Movies](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-3/) > > which points out: Thanks, Captain Amazing, interesting series of articles. I personally like this quote from the second article, which is similar to yours but I think gets a little closer to making the same point I’m trying to make: > [@](#): > > While I complain a lot about the inaccuracies of various films and tv shows, it’s not because I think they need to be 100% accurate. It’s because I think they’re being inaccurate about stupid things they could easily have been more accurate about. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/54 "2015-06-05T13:59:37Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Here’s A E Larsen’s three part essay on “Why They’re No Such Thing as a Historically Accurate Movie”: > > [Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 1 | An Historian Goes to the Movies](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-1/) > [Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 2 | An Historian Goes to the Movies](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-2/) > [Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 3 | An Historian Goes to the Movies](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-3/) > > which points out: I would also like to say thanks, for introducing me to what looks like a very interesting blog. I’ll have to put it on my regular reading list. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/55 "2015-06-05T14:13:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Here’s A E Larsen’s three part essay on “Why They’re No Such Thing as a Historically Accurate Movie”: > > [Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 1 | An Historian Goes to the Movies](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-1/) > [Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 2 | An Historian Goes to the Movies](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/23/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-2/) > [Why There’s No Such Thing as an Historically-Accurate Movie, part 3 | An Historian Goes to the Movies](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-an-historically-accurate-movie-part-3/) > > which points out: The same writer does a post about [The Imitation Game.](https://aelarsen.wordpress.com/2015/01/21/the-imitation-game-does-it-pinkwash-alan-turing/) In it he nails what I hate about historically inaccurate movies. I don’t care whether William Wallace wore a skirt or gave speeches before battles, but when a movie makes things up ino order to shape events to match a predetermined message is when I feel manipulated and lied to. The writers of Inherit the Wind wanted to make the Scopes trial story into a play where one side are ignorant buffoons. However, the actual Scopes trial did not feature any ignorant buffoons so he made a fictional version where one side did have ignorant buffoons. That is the honest thing to do, it is not his fault that some people think Inherit the Wind is a true story. On the other hand, “Good Night and Good Luck” was painstaking in getting every detail right about the period costumes and sets but portrays Murrow as bravely leading the fight against McCarthy when, by his own admission, Murrow was actually rather late and uncertain about going after McCarthy. Not only that but one of the people the film shows McCarthy accusing, Annie Lee Moss, a pentagon communications workers was later proved to actually be a communist. I don’t care about little details but I want the film to be honest, if they can’t do that write fiction. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/56 "2015-06-05T17:03:49Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > But there were no Germans in the Imitation game movie , they needed a bad guy who was right there in the project. the way it was done, though, was ham-fisted and cliché-ridden. You already have a number of conflicts you can use - the fight against time, the inherent difficult of the task, Turing hiding his homosexuality, and so on - to create dramatic tension. Mark Strong’s MI6 character could be the heavy, or you could use Charles Dance’s character but make him vastly more realistic. He doesn’t have to disbelieve Turing’s idea (which is insanely at odds with fact) he just has to pressure Turing to do it FASTER. As it is, he’s a very silly stock character in what should be a very serious a nuanced movie. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/57 "2015-06-05T17:17:01Z")
The thing is, the real Bletchly park employed hundreds and hundreds of people. It wasn’t 5 guys trying to break codes, all supervised by one angry guy who doesn’t believe in codebreaking. I’m sure there were plenty of bullheaded officers in the British military who didn’t hold with this poncy nonsense of figuring things out with math and science when you could just charge the enemy with fixed bayonets. Those guys were all getting themselves killed on the front lines, not supervising cryptographers. In real life, cryptography was considered an absolutely vital part of the war effort, and the Bletchly Park guys were given enormous resources to accomplish their goals. Again, this is comparable to having the general in charge of the Manhattan project constantly threatening to shut the whole thing down because all physicists are fags and the whole thing is a fraud. That’s not what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/58 "2015-06-05T18:52:06Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It was like making a movie about the Manhattan Project, except making Einstein in charge of the Manhattan Project, and have Einstein overrule Truman on dropping the bombs, and have Einstein fly the Enola Gay over Hiroshima, and have the bomb not work at the last minute so Einstein has to punch his co-pilot Oppenheimer (who is a Russian spy) into unconsciousness and crawl out into the bomb bay and cut the red wire in time to drop the bomb on the massive Japanese battle fleet that’s about to sail forth to attack America. Now you’re just being ridiculous. Einstein piloted the Enola Gay on the flight to Nagasaki. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/59 "2015-06-05T19:42:35Z")
I’m reminded of what Kevin Smith said about pitching his Superman script to, what’s his face, John Peters. When Smith was done, Peters told him he was missing some story beats. Stories need a structure, and movies need a structure that’s different than, say, a novel. This does not change if the movie is based on true events. Since reality doesn’t come with story beats, stuff gets changed, shuffled around, streamlined, added, subtracted, all in the name of a flowing story structure. And what’s wrong with that? Narratives are a lousy way to get the facts. You want to know the facts about Alan Turing, I’m sure there’s plenty of biographies. You want a general idea of who he was, and how he saved millions, and how he and many other gay people were persecuted, then The Imitation Game does that. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522/60 "2015-06-05T21:33:00Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I get drama, I get storytelling, but sometimes Hollywood just seems to deliberately change inconsequential facts for no reason, like Connecticut’s vote on the 13th Amendment in Lincoln. It didn’t affect the story, it took extra effort, so why change it? It’s like Hollywood is giving a big FU to their audience. “We change things because we are gods! Kneel before us!” One of my biggest complaints about Lincoln (and “based on true story” movies) is not so much embellishments that make the movie more interesting… It’s the complete alterarion of history. In Lincoln, Spielberg chose to change the names of congressmen who voted against the 13th amendment, to supposedly spare the families of embarrassment. Seriously? That is part of the historical record. The vote was the vote. It was 150 years ago. Few people have spent the time memorizing the evil politicians who voted against the amendment. The ones who have are insulted by this change. Adding the opening scene in Lincoln, where he is not only approached by 2 black soldiers but one gives him serious attitude was pointlessly patrionizing, but it didn’t bother me nearly as much as the fictionalized vote. These are the types of things that drive me bonkers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-based-on-a-true-story-movies-so-arbitrarily-fictionalized/721522.md?page=4)