# Why are bathroom light switches often outside of the bathroom? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085 "2004-09-20T03:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/21 "2004-09-20T19:40:18Z")
I have lived, for 17 years, in a mobile home, in Gardena, which was built around 1960. The bathroom light switch is just outside of the door, on a two-switch panel; the other switch powers an outlet up near the ceiling on the wall opposite the door. If the designers did it that way to prevent shock, I can’t follow their reasoning: there’s an ordinary outlet on the wall opposite the bathtub; it’s easy to get water into the prong holes. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![flapcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@flapcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flapcats)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/22 "2004-09-20T19:55:48Z")
Oddly in my in-laws place in the Czech Republic they have the switch on the outside of the bathroom but on the inside, about 1m from the bath is an electrical socket with no cover or on/off switch. :eek: I’ve seen it in several Czech homes, so it’s not a one off. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/23 "2004-09-20T22:16:24Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I’d always had a soft spot for the Brits, but now I have to question my beliefs. To imagine that your whole country has its switches upside-down is just preposturous. Oh, South Africa’s okay, though, since being upside down on the globe kind of flips their switches the right way. 🙂 I have no idea why our switches are the way they are (although I would like to say that it seems the most natural and logical thing in the world to us, as is often true of familiar things) - I suspect a lot of it has to do with established convention rather than any conscious logic. And it isn’t just a case of the switch plates being mounted upside-down by a long line of rebellious electricians; most UK power outlets are switched and the switch orientation is invariably down=on. However: > [@](#): > > Doors are “on” when the lock is in the up position (i.e., you can open the door). On the other hand, I guess the lock itself is then off (i.e., you can open the door). Surely a door is ‘active’ when it is open, rather than closed with the lock engaged (or at least I think that argument is no less valid than your point). > [@](#): > > Water is “on” when the valve is in the upmost position, whether it be a kitchen faucet or a screw valve and some types of plunger valves. That’s because of the geometry of the valves themselves - the pipes feed up from underneath, the screw valve tightens down like a cap (in fact you could have just as easily use a screw-top bottle as an example) - not all that relevant, I think. > [@](#): > > When the light is on, the switch “points” toward the sky or the light, so you know it’s on or off. When the switch points down, the ground is illuminated by rays travelling in a downward direction from the ceiling-mounted light fixture. > [@](#): > > Aha! Industrial equipment! Aside from a black-red color code, up always means energized, and down always means de-energized. Just another convention - without knowing the reasoning (if any behind it), it seems arbitrary. Sorry if any of the above came across as snarky; it certainly isn’t meant to be - it’s just that your explanations seemed rather arbitrary. I’m quite surprised that you didn’t come up with one of the better arguments for the down=off orientation - the switch is less likely to be accidentally thrown by a falling object brushing against it. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/24 "2004-09-21T00:35:02Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > … I thought the 🙂 indicated I was being cheeky! Now I’ll get screamed at for using “cheeky” wrong. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/25 "2004-09-21T00:40:21Z")
Fair 'nuff; I have a bit of a blind spot for smilies. This is a fantastic example of how familiarity makes us consider something the ‘right’ way to do it though, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Dancing\_Fool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Dancing\_Fool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancing_Fool)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/26 "2004-09-21T01:15:16Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > So let me ask you this – why is down = on, and up = off. Because it’s always been that way. 😉 I’d say it another of those UK/US differences. Every Commonwealth country I’ve been in has done it that way (and I’ve been in a lot of them). I prefer it that way - I find it’s a lot easier in the dark to sweep my hand down the wall, flipping the switch as I pass it, than to sweep upwards. On a down sweep my hand trails naturally. On an upsweep, either my hand rolls over so I’m sweeping with the back of my fingers, where the skins softer, or the leading edge is trying to dig in when you hit the fascia, or my hand has to be held awkwardly. The first seems much more natural. When you’re turning the switch off, you can see what you’re doing, so it’s easier. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/27 "2004-09-21T02:31:02Z")
Is there really that much danger in touching a light switch even if you’re barefoot in a puddle? I would think you’d break the path almost instantly; it’s not like you’re holding onto the switch, you’re just brushing it with your finger. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/28 "2004-09-21T06:24:03Z")
Several questions posed-I’ll give them a shot one at a time. Switch location- **AskNott** could be on to something, as there is no requirement in the NEC to locate switching outside of a bathroom. Danger of shock-Although you don’t wish to test the theory, standing on a wet floor, unless it is a cement floor, e.g. on grade, you’re not at a good potential to ground. Lighting circuits are not required to have GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) protection unless located within shower stalls. A general ceiling or wall mounted fixture is fine. The exposed portion of a switch-the toggle is nonmetallic, so unless you’ve run the hand shower into the wall, you’re reasonably safe. Receptacles are another issue. They must have GFCI protection, the reason being that you plug appliances into them, and can use those appliances when close to a sink. The metallic faucet and drain assemblies are a good path to ground, such that if you make a connection between a defective appliance and a sink fitting, you’d be toast except for the GFCI. Direction of toggle=Off-A single pole switch mounted vertically must be installed such that up=On, and down=Off. Single pole means that it is the only switch controlling the fixture. When you have two switches for a fixture, such as at the top and bottom of a stair, up/down and on/off are relative. Again-I’m only speaking about US and Canada-how the rest of you folk do things is another matter. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/29 "2004-09-22T14:18:37Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Plus, it lets you put your siblings in a blackout when they’re taking a dump. Or my personal favorite, turn out the light on a parent, then blame it on sibling. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/30 "2004-09-22T14:34:37Z")
> [@Dancing Fool](#): > > I’d say it another of those UK/US differences. Every Commonwealth country I’ve been in has done it that way (and I’ve been in a lot of them). But perhaps not to Canada? There (where I grew up) switches almost universally were rigged for “Upwards to turn on, Downwards to turn off”. I imagine this follows the pattern of the US. I’m in Belgium now, and it’s the same way here. But it seemed to usually be as you described when I visited Britain. Oh, to be clear, I’ve always lived in the the province of Ontario. If it’s a regional thing, some other parts of the country may differ without my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/31 "2004-09-22T14:37:09Z")
Oh, and for what it’s worth, in the house I grew up in, the switch was outside the bathroom. There was an electrical outlet right above the sink, though. I saw this repeated in other houses as well. When my granparents built their cottage, they did it that way, too. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/32 "2004-09-22T17:01:56Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Direction of toggle=Off-A single pole switch mounted vertically must be installed such that up=On, and down=Off. Single pole means that it is the only switch controlling the fixture. When you have two switches for a fixture, such as at the top and bottom of a stair, up/down and on/off are relative. I assume this is for consistency, right? All the light switches I have seen in stores have the labels oriented this way. All the places I’ve lived have had the switches on the inside, and near the door. Newer bathrooms often have multiple switch panels, with switches for fans and heaters. (Mine has a nightlight also.) That makes sense so that you can reach in and turn on the light in the dark easily. I couldn’t imagine putting a shower right by the door. I have stayed in hotels with the switches on the outside, but these often have a sink in the room, and a lav in a small, separate room. Could the British codes be left over from a time when the hot wires were not as will isolated from the switch? I too have a hard time imagining how someone could get electrocuted, and my bathroom has some switches that are big, where I don’t think much water would get in even if you sprayed it. Anyone have a cite for someone getting zapped this way? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/33 "2004-09-22T17:16:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I too have a hard time imagining how someone could get electrocuted, and my bathroom has some switches that are big, where I don’t think much water would get in even if you sprayed it. Anyone have a cite for someone getting zapped this way? No cites about it actually occurring, but it _is_ possible, at least. You’d have to have not one, but two major faults, at minimum, for it to happen though. You’d need for the ground on the electrical box the switch was mounted in to open, AND for the hot line to contact the box. At that point, the two screws holding the switchplate to the box are energized, and if you touch them, you’ll get a nasty surprise. Other than that, I can’t see it happening, realistically. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/34 "2004-09-22T17:18:30Z")
> [@wolfstu](#): > > …switches almost universally were rigged for “Upwards to turn on, Downwards to turn off” […] > > If it’s a regional thing, some other parts of the country may differ without my knowledge. It’s [coast-to-coast](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=237601), baby. (Pit thread, bad language.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/35 "2004-09-22T18:15:32Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Could the British codes be left over from a time when the hot wires were not as will isolated from the switch? I too have a hard time imagining how someone could get electrocuted, and my bathroom has some switches that are big, where I don’t think much water would get in even if you sprayed it. Anyone have a cite for someone getting zapped this way? That could be part of the answer. Fifty years ago or more many light switches had brass covers which could become live , especially dangerous with our 230 volts. Regarding the codes ,the current ones ( known as the 16th regulations ) were only published about 10 years ago but nothing was changed in them from the previous ones regarding bathrooms and electrics. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/36 "2004-09-22T22:37:11Z")
> [@Rayne Man](#): > > That could be part of the answer. Fifty years ago or more many light switches had brass covers which could become live , especially dangerous with our 230 volts. > > Regarding the codes ,the current ones ( known as the 16th regulations ) were only published about 10 years ago but nothing was changed in them from the previous ones regarding bathrooms and electrics. I can see a problem if the switch were miswired or became miswired. So another question: clearly touching a live plate is worse when you’re standing in water, but I wouldn’t think it would be too advisable even if it were dry. (When I replace switches and outlets I’m really paranoid about doing it right.) Is the difference enough for the code? I know your 230. The first time I visited, and plugged in a teapot, I was damn impressed! 🙂 I think you guys have 230 to make tea faster myself. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/37 "2004-09-23T00:13:54Z")
> [@Dancing Fool](#): > > I prefer it that way - I find it’s a lot easier in the dark to sweep my hand down the wall, flipping the switch as I pass it, than to sweep upwards. On a down sweep my hand trails naturally. On an upsweep, either my hand rolls over so I’m sweeping with the back of my fingers, where the skins softer, or the leading edge is trying to dig in when you hit the fascia, or my hand has to be held awkwardly. The first seems much more natural. When you’re turning the switch off, you can see what you’re doing, so it’s easier. As a Brit, I agree: it definitely feels more natural to sweep the hand down the wall in the dark. Still, I argued for some years that UK v. US conventions on light switches were the perfect example of where two different cultures had arbitrarily normalised opposite rules. One gets used to the direction one grew up with and convinces oneself that this is somehow the “natural” way of doing things. However, someone then suggested a functional explanation for the US convention to me. With heavy industrial switches it’s easier to pull them down than to pull them up. Since an emergency is more likely to require the power being switched off, it makes sense for the down position to be the “off” one. This rule is then extended to all switches. I’m not entirely convinced. Not least because it then raises the question of why this reasoning was only applied in the US. Whatever the conclusion to be reached, I suspect there’s an interesting academic study to be got out of tracing how the national differences came about historically. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085/38 "2004-09-23T21:54:57Z")
Can anyone speak for any other non-English countries? In Mexico, most switches are as here in the US. In Germany, all of the switches are as here in the US. Is there something else driving this? Hell, what did Thomas Edison do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-bathroom-light-switches-often-outside-of-the-bathroom/265085.md?page=1)