# Why are Black Lives Matter activists disrupting Bernie Sanders' appearances and what effects? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 9, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345 "2015-08-09T00:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/101 "2015-08-11T01:56:27Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I dunno…housing discrimination seems like a pretty big deal to me. Sure, by homeowners and landlords who actually see who they are going to sell or rent to. I doubt if Donald Trump has even met a tenth of the people who rent from him. Racism among the wealthy is a problem, but it’s a subtle problem. Racism among the middle class and the poor is in African-Americans’ faces every day. It’s not the CEO of a large company telling his people not to hire minorities. It’s the individual managers that make those decisions against company policy. Reich can urge us to unite all he wants, but that’s just dreaming. The problems we have are real and won’t be solved by upper class scolds. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/102 "2015-08-11T01:57:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Eh. Can I disparage Darren Wilson? Is that OK with you? > > Police should not gain the right to become executioners because they neglect to carry all their gear and neglect to use the gear they have properly. Wilson had a vehicle. He presumably had pepper spray and a nightstick and a working radio. He chose not to carry a taser; that’s on him; but he didn’t need one. He didn’t need to draw his sidearm either. He had no good reason to be in fear of Mike Brown. > > So, yes, that was an excessive force incident. After robbing a store and assaulting the clerk, Brown reached into Wilson’s police vehicle. There was a struggle for Wilson’s firearm and Brown was shot. Brown ran away, stopped, turned, and charged at the officer who was pursuing him. Wilson then shot the charging Brown several more times. Brown made several bad choices that day. The angry, and threatening, crowd prevented the medical examiner from examining the crime scene and releasing the body for 4 1/2 hours. The BLM activists conveniently forget that fact and blame the police for not releasing Brown’s body. The BLM appears to be bullshit artists but I’m willing to be swayed by their future actions. All Lives Matter ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/103 "2015-08-11T02:01:29Z")
Brown I have no sympathy for, but what happened to Eric Garner was a travesty. I get BLM’s point, they just shouldn’t be considering all people shot by police to be victims. Michael Brown was no victim. He made people victims. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/104 "2015-08-11T05:18:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The flaw in Robert Reich’s thinking is, are the cops the moneyed interests? Are CEOs responsible for racism, or the small shop owners? It’s all well and good for wealthy liberals to say “people like me” should be taxed more. But are Robert Reich’s friends’ the primary cause of race problems in this country? Will Robert Reichs’ social circle paying higher taxes make it less likely that Cornell West gets arrested trying to get into his own home? > > The reason racism and economic justice do not overlap completely is precisely because most racism, even institutional racism, is a primarily middle and lower class phenomenon. Bill Gates isn’t keeping African-Americans from economic opportunities, it’s the school teachers who think they can’t achieve and so don’t try, and the small business owners who want them to “buy and leave!” and the police who think that they are perps just because they stepped outside that day. I’m not really commenting on Reich, but throwing out some info about money, government, and race. From [here](http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431): > [@](#): > > 1981, when President Reagan persuaded Congress to pass the Military Cooperation with Law Enforcement Act, which encouraged the military to give local, state, and federal police access to military bases, intelligence, research, weaponry, and other equipment for drug interdiction. That legislation carved a huge exception to the Posse Comitiatus Act, the Civil War-era law prohibiting the use of the military for civilian policing. Ok, google _Florida v. Bostick_, _Ohio v. Robinette_ and _Atwater v. City of Lago Vista_ to see the dismantling of the 4th Amendment in the wake of the War on Drugs. All right, getting back to the beginnings of the War on Drugs, from the same cite above: > [@](#): > > Participation in the drug war required a diversion of resources away from more serious crimes, such as murder, rape, grand theft, and violent assault- all of which were of far greater concern to most communities than illegal drug use. > > The resistance within law enforcement to the drug war created something of a dilemma for the Reagan administration. In order for the war to actually work… it was necessary to build a consensus among state and local law enforcement agencies that the drug war should be a top priority in their hometowns. The solution: cash. Huge cash grants were made to those law enforcement agencies that were willing to make drug-law enforcement a top priority. > [@](#): > > Almost immediately after the federal dollars began to flow, law enforcement agencies across the country began to compete for funding, equipment, and training. By the late 1990s, the overwhelming majority of state and local police forces in the country had availed themselves of the newly available resources and added a significant military component to buttress their drug-war operations. > [@](#): > > the _Times_ reported that police departments had an extraordinary incentive to use their new equipment for drug enforcement: the extra federal funding the local police departments received was tied to antidrug policing. The size of the disbursements was linked to the number of city or county drug arrests. Each arrest, in theory, would net a given city or county about $153 in state and federal funding. Non-drug-related policing brought no federal dollars, even for violent crime. As a result, when Jackson County, Wisconsin, quadrupled its drug arrests between 1999 and 2000, the county’s subsidy quadrupled too. > [@](#): > > state and local law enforcement agencies were granted the authority to keep, for their own use, the vast majority of cash and assets they seize when waging the drug war. This dramatic change in policy gave state and local police an enormous stake in the War on Drugs- not in its success, but in its perpetual existence. Law enforcement gained a pecuniary interest not only in the forfeited property, but in the profitability of the drug market itself. The result has been police harassment of the black community. Why do cops tend to target minorities, when theoretically they could target anyone with this? I dunno, you tell me. Maybe it is the intent of the War on Drugs. I understand that this doesn’t address why Sanders is being targeted by activists, but I think it is important for someone to try to make you understand how federal money influences the relationship between police and the black community. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/105 "2015-08-11T05:30:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > After robbing a store and assaulting the clerk, Brown reached into Wilson’s police vehicle. There was a struggle for Wilson’s firearm and Brown was shot. Brown ran away, stopped, turned, and charged at the officer who was pursuing him. Wilson then shot the charging Brown several more times. Brown made several bad choices that day. > > The angry, and threatening, crowd prevented the medical examiner from examining the crime scene and releasing the body for 4 1/2 hours. The BLM activists conveniently forget that fact and blame the police for not releasing Brown’s body. The BLM appears to be bullshit artists but I’m willing to be swayed by their future actions. > > All Lives Matter I thought that slogan wasn’t supposed to be dismissive of Black Lives Matter? Here’s what doesn’t make sense to me (well, one of them): this expectation that people who have already clearly stated that they don’t trust the police or their integrity would or should listen to those SAME police when they say they’re not at fault because of forensic evidence THEY collected and analyzed, or because a prosecutor who works very closely to them (in the same criminal justice system that the group as ALSO made clear they believe is racist) says they didn’t do it. Why should they? (And this is even ignoring whether you think they SHOULD distrust the police or criminal justice system. The fact is they DO, and they’ve expressed that in no uncertain terms.) What also doesn’t make sense to me, on topic: why SHOULDN’T a group who wants to draw attention to a cause do so at an event for a politician who’s hot Internet news and attracts a lot of people who’ll be more inclined to be sympathetic to their cause (at the very least, enough so that they won’t “mind” the interruption)? This group has no stake in getting Bernie Sanders elected or nominated. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/106 "2015-08-11T11:05:42Z")
I mistakenly posted this in the GD thread about “All Lives Matter”, but it probably belongs here: > [@What's wrong with saying "All lives matter"?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-wrong-with-saying-all-lives-matter/727366/209): > > At least one of these particular fruitcakes (Marissa Janae Johnson) is a member of a splinter group of BLM, whose goal is to bring down the Democratic Party. She is an Evangelical Christian, and a (former?) Palin supporter. > > It’s on her Facebook page, and she admitted it in a [radio interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQqdNF-BHTw) on TWIBnation media, where she says her religious convictions “compel” her to do this, and “it doesn’t matter if I was a Palin supporter just before I got up on that stage”. > > Food for thought. Update: The splinter group is called [Outside Agitators 206](https://outsideagitators206.org/). This was posted on Johnson’s Facebook [page](https://www.facebook.com/bricarter/posts/10153513899087463): “The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way. The liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative. Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro’s friend and benefactor, and by winning the friendship and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political football game. Politically the American Negro is nothing but a football, and the white liberals control this mentally dead ball. Through tricks of tokenism and false promises, and they have the willing cooperation of Negro leaders. These leaders sell out our people for just a few crumbs of token recognition and token gains” -MALCOLM X If you are stanning for Bernie Sanders and are upset that he got shut down but you haven’t been putting the same passion behind Black Lives you really need to reevaluate more than your political party. There have also been tweets against Sanders with the hashtags: #BowDownBernie and #FreePalestine. I’m not sure what to make of it, but there are plenty of CTs going around. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/107 "2015-08-11T11:34:30Z")
I agree that the war on drugs has resulted in an intensifying of police targeting of African-Americans, but I don’t think that was the intention of the powers that be. High minded concepts tend to get muddied the further down the chain they get. Another example is LBJ’s war on poverty, which in the mind of the geniuses was supposed to end poverty, but at the ground level led to bureaucrats actively recruiting people to go on welfare, which led to dependency and the destruction of the family, and well, lots of drugs, which led to the war on drugs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/108 "2015-08-11T12:27:18Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The drug war can easily be viewed as a backlash against civil rights victories to impose a new system of control over minorities. I find this statement profound. Have there been books written examining this hypothesis? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/109 "2015-08-11T13:45:32Z")
[_The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness_](http://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439300339&sr=8-1&keywords=michelle+alexander) by Michelle Alexander would be one such book. [Here’s a PBS article about Ms. Alexander](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/criminal-justice/locked-up-in-america/michelle-alexander-a-system-of-racial-and-social-control/). [ACLU: The Drug War is the New Jim Crow by Graham Boyd](https://www.aclu.org/drug-war-new-jim-crow) was first published 14 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/110 "2015-08-11T13:57:52Z")
I missed the edit window, but [Wikipedia has a pretty good summary/overview of Ms. Alexander’s book](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow); thought you might be interested, **JSLE**. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/111 "2015-08-11T13:59:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I agree that the war on drugs has resulted in an intensifying of police targeting of African-Americans, but I don’t think that was the intention of the powers that be. High minded concepts tend to get muddied the further down the chain they get. Another example is LBJ’s war on poverty, which in the mind of the geniuses was supposed to end poverty, but at the ground level led to bureaucrats actively recruiting people to go on welfare, which led to dependency and the destruction of the family, and well, lots of drugs, which led to the war on drugs. Actually, drug use was on the decline at the time the drug war was started. Law enforcement had to be goaded into getting on board with it- they didn’t see drugs as a priority problem. And, the statistics I’ve seen show that black people don’t use more drugs than anything else- the only demographic that uses drugs at a significantly higher rate is young white people. Maybe you have a point about LBJ’s war on poverty, but it isn’t that it made the drug war necessary or turned blacks into a bunch of drug fiends. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/112 "2015-08-11T14:01:03Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I find this statement profound. Have there been books written examining this hypothesis? I’m quoting from the Alexander book Snowboarder mentions. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/113 "2015-08-11T14:05:34Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Actually, drug use was on the decline at the time the drug war was started. Law enforcement had to be goaded into getting on board with it- they didn’t see drugs as a priority problem. And, the statistics I’ve seen show that black people don’t use more drugs than anything else- the only demographic that uses drugs at a significantly higher rate is young white people. > > Maybe you have a point about LBJ’s war on poverty, but it isn’t that it made the drug war necessary or turned blacks into a bunch of drug fiends. No, my point was just that at the top level it’s high-minded goals, but at the lower levels it’s “let’s bust some heads.” For the most part, both Republicans and Democrats supported both the war on drugs and anti-poverty measures. The controversies didn’t really get started until it was seen what happened once those ideas filtered down to the people who actually had to carry them out. Then everyone got really uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/114 "2015-08-11T14:27:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > All Lives Matter. But, it is black lives that are at special risk. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/115 "2015-08-11T16:06:37Z")
> [@camille](#): > > …Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro’s friend and benefactor… “Negro”? Huh? Wha? ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/116 "2015-08-11T16:13:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Negro”? Huh? Wha? That was a quote from Malcolm X. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/117 "2015-08-11T16:33:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, it is black lives that are at special risk. All Lives Matter. We can work together or special interest groups can idolize a petty thug who stole cigars, attacked a store clerk, and died while attacked a police officer who was trying to detain him. The BLM supporters can attack Democrat presidential candidates if they chose to. The attacks, and general assholeyness, of the OWS thugs brought them the attention they desired. It also cost them much of the support they may have had from independents, Democrats, conservatives, progressives, left-handed people, athletes, shopkeepers, truck drivers, etc… You know - voters. The OWS obnoxious behavior doomed their efforts. The BLM is no different. When the OWS/BLM chant for internal war, push Bernie Sanders around, reject free speech, and just happen to appear at the demonstrations which turn violent, they are showing their true colors. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/118 "2015-08-11T16:35:30Z")
I don’t agree with much of that other than the special interest part. BLM has a point to make, and Democrats are right to listen. But are they looking to LISTEN, or just try to appease, while still tailoring their message to white middle class voters, where elections are won and lost? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/119 "2015-08-11T16:43:33Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > …What also doesn’t make sense to me, on topic: why SHOULDN’T a group who wants to draw attention to a cause do so at an event for a politician who’s hot Internet news and attracts a lot of people who’ll be more inclined to be sympathetic to their cause (at the very least, enough so that they won’t “mind” the interruption)? This group has no stake in getting Bernie Sanders elected or nominated. (post shortened) The public came to hear Bernie Sanders. They couldn’t hear Sanders speak because several assholes from BLM reject Sanders right to free speech, and the voters right to hear from a Presidential candidate. Why would the Bernie Sanders crowd be sympathetic to the interrupting assholes and their cause célèbre? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345/120 "2015-08-11T22:06:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > The public came to hear Bernie Sanders. They couldn’t hear Sanders speak because several assholes from BLM reject Sanders right to free speech, and the voters right to hear from a Presidential candidate. > > Why would the Bernie Sanders crowd be sympathetic to the interrupting assholes and their cause célèbre? Two is not several There was a BLM disruption attempt at a Hillary rally today, but the Secret Service put paid to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-black-lives-matter-activists-disrupting-bernie-sanders-appearances-and-what-effects/727345.md?page=7)