Speaking purely hypothetically, should the people of Northern Ireland take a vote and decide tomorrow that they’d like to be viewed as part of Britain, would that be “politically” acceptable?
ruadh, I too understand what you’re getting at, but, if I wanted to be provocative, I might suggest that the UK government, being fully aware of the various cultural and historical sensitivities involved, has taken care to adopt a formal description of its own country that is geographically accurate, whereas the Irish government apparently hasn’t. 
(I normally find similies twee and irritating but it is at times like this that they have their uses.)
I don’t know if you putting quotes around the word indicates you believe I’m being ‘politically correct’ - I’m not. There is a clear and acknowledged distinction between the name of the island of ‘Great Britain’, and the nationality ‘British’. The former is a geographical definition, the latter a political one, accepted by all sides.
As for voting on it, that’s for another GD.
OK Gary, on re-reading I do realise I have got “politically” and “incorrect” in that order in the same sentence. But this is a real version of ‘politically correct’, rather than the PC version.
To draw a parallel, it’s the same kind of political correctness that persuades me to call the land of my birth England, not France.
I’m just curious as to why it’s okay to refer to Orkney and Shetland as being part of Britain (or parts of Scotland, if you prefer) yet for some reason to refer to Northern Ireland as being part of Britain is wrong. I’m particularly curious as to why people should become offended by such a thing.
As has been established, Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom (noun) and is British (adjective), but is not in Great Britain (noun) as you originally asserted.
[nitpick]
The island is ‘Britain’ not ‘Great Britain’. ‘Great Britain’ is a political concept which came about with the Acts of Union with Wales and Scotland. Of course, you’re right in saying it doesn’t include Northern Ireland and that that is accepted by all sides.
[/nitpick]
In terms of the nomenclature generally, I know the following is well understood by most of the people here but some of the posts in this thread lead me to believe it’s worth stating anyway.
‘Ireland’ - The name given to the state in the 1937 Constitution. Applied to the 32 counties with a proviso that laws enacted by the Oireachtas (Irish Parliament) only have effect in the 26 counties pending the reintegration of the national territory. The amendment to articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution now means that, constitutionally, ‘Ireland’ now refers only to the 26 counties. Of course, geographically, pejoratively or just casually, ‘Ireland’ can be used to refer to the 32 counties.
‘Britain’ - The island of Britain, including England, Scotland and Wales.
‘Great Britain’ - The political union of England, Scotland and Wales.
‘The United Kingdom’ - The political union of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
When you get into the issue of nationality, things aren’t so clear. In addition the use of other terms such as ‘Ulster’, ‘the Six Counties’, ‘the north’ etc. all have political connotations but I would of thought that we could at least agree on the above.
You’ve misquoted for the third time. Please try to recall that I didn’t refer to mainland Britain, but the mainland British.
And my question still stands. Many people refer to the country as Great Britain. The inhabitants are British. Why then is it offensive to refer to Northern Ireland so? Isn’t that just semantic nitpicking at best, and at worst a deliberate attempt to find issues to be offended by?
The argument is that Orkney, Shetland, the Isle of Wight etc. aren’t geographically part of Great Britain, which, according to some definitions, only refers to the largest island of the group. (And, despite what manwithaplan thinks, the correct geographical term is Great Britain, a usage which predates any political union.) Similarly, one can argue that any of the islands off Ireland, geographically defined, aren’t part of Ireland, again geographically defined. Of course, this doesn’t mean that the inhabitants of Orkney, Shetland, the Isle of Wight or whereever aren’t British, Scottish, English or whatever, in exactly the same way as the inhabitants of Aran are Irish and the inhabitants of Hawaii are Americans.
If you are born in Northern Ireland, you’re entitled to carry a British or an Irish passport. If you choose to carry an Irish passport (the primary piece of evidence of citizenship), you are entitled to be offended if someone calls you British. Similarly, northern unionists would be offended if you called them Irish (which is why it’s such fun;))
I’m not sure if I understand you correctly on the issue of the name of the country but if ‘many people’ are including Northern Ireland in their references to Great Britain, then many people are wrong.
For once, I didn’t misquote you - I was responding to the following:
And the answer, again, is yes, it is incorrect.
[counter-nitpick]
manwithaplan do you have a cite for the ‘Great’ part of that being related to the Union?
I have read that it comes from Ptolemy, who deemed the archipelago to be “Pritinos” (or something… in transliteration from the Greek), which the Romans called “Britannia”, that comprised Albion and Hibernia, which were referred to as the Greater Britannia and the Lesser Britannia. Though I now cannot find the cite, dammit.
Anyway, from what I can find in modern dictionaries, ‘Great Britain’ is indeed the name of the island:
Great Britain: “an island of NW Europe”
(Merrion-Webster)
Great Britain: “an island comprising England and Scotland and Wales”
(WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University)
Great Britain: “An island off the western coast of Europe comprising England, Scotland, and Wales.”
(American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition)
[/counter-nitpick]
As a nation, “Great Britain” existed by courtesy from 1603 to 1707 and de jure from 1707 to 1800. It consisted of the realm of England (including Wales) and the realm of Scotland, two separate kingdoms under one monarch between 1603-1647 and 1660-1707, James VI of Scotland and I of England preferring to be known as King of Great Britain as encompassing both his realms. When the kingdoms were merged under Anne in 1707, the term of Great Britain was adopted for the resulting single nation. In 1800, the Kingdom of Ireland, which had been under English control since Tudor times, was united with Great Britain to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. In 1922, when Home Rule was adopted for His Majesty’s Irish Free State, the word “Northern” was inserted to note that the Six Counties had chosen to remain within the United Kingdom. While I am totally repelled by the complete ignorance of most of the English vis-a-vis the condition of Ireland between 1485 and 1922, one has to admit that the Irish have unilaterally played fast and footloose with the agreement established in 1922 between the two countries.
Ulster is used by some to refer to the six counties when actually its … Ouch, who threw that apple? 
Carry on boys.
jjimm, APB, humble apologies. I am wrong. As wrong as a very wrong thing. I will not allow my received understandings to be posted unchecked in future. And I was so pompous about it:o. It just shows you how culturally neutered I am that I always believed that the ‘Great’ was due to some political vanity or meant ‘greater than the sum of its parts’ rather than a classical derivation.
I’ll still call it Britain though;)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yojimbo *
**
Are you sure they didn’t throw an orange?
Unfortunately, you are still misquoting.
In case you don’t see the distinction, a question is not an assertion.
Now, with regards to the quotation game, here’s Encyclopedia.com
And again I fail to understand why people should be offended if people refer to Northern Ireland as being part of Britain, rather than part of the United Kingdom? What’s the big difference?
Gary there isn’t a big difference and somebody that gets offended needs to get a grip IMO but the point I think being made is that it’s technically wrong.
It’s all very nitpicky stuff really.
It almost worth throwing in a “Tiocfaidh ar La” etc. in just to get away from this stuff but there’s a word for that
You’re right. Not good to offend people with the minutae of semantics, is it?
Unilaterally? You don’t want to get me started on the Boundary Commission again do you?