# Why are cardinals (birds) so obvious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930 "2010-08-02T20:39:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/1 "2010-08-02T20:39:12Z")
It seems like the coloration of many animals either allows the animals to hide from predators, or at least to deceive predators. But the northern cardinal is extremely obvious in its bright red coloration, its tendency to perch on high, unprotected branches, and its song which is a very loud and attractive whistle. It seems that the bird is attracting attention. But that’s not the common m.o. of most animals, certainly not birds. The males are attracting attention from females, that’s true, but also are calling attention to themselves for predators. How to understand this flamboyant but possibly dangerous behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/2 "2010-08-02T20:42:30Z")
Establishing territory, no? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/3 "2010-08-02T20:49:16Z")
I don’t think cardinals are a particularly unique example; many songbirds have flashy plumage (at least, among the males), and notable songs, including [eastern bluebirds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_bluebird) and [goldfinches](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Goldfinch)…not to mention all the brightly-colored parakeets and parrots. ---
**Author:** ![mikews99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@mikews99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikews99)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/4 "2010-08-02T20:50:20Z")
Much like a peacock’s tail feathers, those are secondary sexual characteristics that display fitness to prospective mates. The evolutionary pressure for display of reproductive fitness is greater than the pressure for traits enhancing individual survival in this case. You must remember that any species has to live just long enough to reproduce for a trait to become advantageous, so the advantages conferred by bright colors and loud calls outweigh the disadvantages of these traits making it easier for predators to find them. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/5 "2010-08-02T20:50:45Z")
In many species, males are willing to undertake a great deal of risk from predators or other sources in order to get themselves noticed by females. Female cardinals are much duller, being mostly brown, and are pretty well camouflaged against the dead leaves where they forage. Evidently, brightly colored males end up having more offspring on average than dull colored ones because they are more attractive to females, even though they are more vulnerable to predators. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/6 "2010-08-02T20:53:07Z")
Lotsa male birds are brilliantly colored. The role of the male of most any species is “be attractive enough to mate.” In the cardinal’s case, that means, “be bright red and highly visible.” Once he’s done his duty he’s living on borrowed time. As with most evolution questions, it’s not “Why is it that way?” it’s “What was it like before this?” Clearly, the Male cardinal is bright red and obvious because it gets to screw more successfully by being so. ETA: Beaten to it. Good thing for me “answering quickly” =/= breeding opportunity! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/7 "2010-08-02T20:56:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In many species, males are willing to undertake a great deal of risk from predators or other sources in order to get themselves noticed by females. Man, ain’t that the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/8 "2010-08-02T20:57:43Z")
> [@CC](#): > > The males are attracting attention from females, that’s true, but also are calling attention to themselves for predators. How to understand this flamboyant but possibly dangerous behavior? By being flamboyant they’re proving how fit they are. “Look, I’m such hot stuff, I can perch up here and sing to the heavens and predators still haven’t caught me”. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/9 "2010-08-02T21:01:47Z")
Just an aside. Have you ever seen a Scarlet Tananger? Man, those things are a glowing bright red. They almost make a cardinal look like a dull brown by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/10 "2010-08-02T21:02:01Z")
Note that birds tend to have much more flamboyant displays than most other male animals: The closest thing among mammals would probably be something like a deer’s rack, but that’s functional in addition to decorative. I suspect that this is because flight is just so danged useful: When you can fly and most of your predators can’t, you can afford to make much bigger sacrifices for purposes of attracting a mate. Who cares if everything can see you, if they can’t catch you? A female, however, and the nest she tends, isn’t free to just fly away from danger, so they stay drab and camouflaged. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/11 "2010-08-02T21:03:24Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > By being flamboyant they’re proving how fit they are. “Look, I’m such hot stuff, I can perch up here and sing to the heavens and predators still haven’t caught me”. This is known as the [handicap principle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_principle). Males demonstrate how badass they are by flaunting their conspicuousness to predators. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/12 "2010-08-02T21:07:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Note that birds tend to have much more flamboyant displays than most other male animals: The closest thing among mammals would probably be something like a deer’s rack, but that’s functional in addition to decorative. I suspect that this is because flight is just so danged useful: When you can fly and most of your predators can’t, you can afford to make much bigger sacrifices for purposes of attracting a mate. Who cares if everything can see you, if they can’t catch you? A female, however, and the nest she tends, isn’t free to just fly away from danger, so they stay drab and camouflaged. That’s a good point. I believe there are some antelope whose males are more “brightly” colored. Think darker, bolder, stripier, etc. In the open areas they live in, they can usually get away. So similar in principle to birds. There are some that even have a special gait–extra springy and jumpy to show the females and would-be predators how fit they are. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/13 "2010-08-02T21:22:10Z")
Do males attract females/dissuade rivals more via color, or song? In many forests, I’d imagine song travels far better than color. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/14 "2010-08-02T21:28:11Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Do males attract females/dissuade rivals more via color, or song? In many forests, I’d imagine song travels far better than color. Depends on the species. Birds like wrens live in underbrush and vine tangles where they are hard to see, and have very prominent songs. Some other birds that live in the forest canopy, where they are easy to see, are brightly colored but don’t sing very much. But there are all kinds of variations. ---
**Author:** ![Acantha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Acantha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acantha)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/15 "2010-08-02T21:36:33Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > > [@Colibri](#): > > > > In many species, males are willing to undertake a great deal of risk from predators or other sources in order to get themselves noticed by females. > > Man, ain’t that the truth. As the mother of a teenaged boy, I can’t tell you how hard I just laughed at your post. Gawd I hope he lives to adulthood. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/16 "2010-08-02T21:51:46Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Some other birds that live in the forest canopy, where they are easy to see, are brightly colored but don’t sing very much. A good example of this is (at least in my experience growing up) is the [Baltimore Oriole](http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Baltimore_Oriole/). The males are pretty flashy and sing their little hearts out for a few weeks after migrating back to their breeding area, presumably to attract a mate and establish territory. Then it seems like they shut the hell up for the rest of the summer, and you rarely hear them. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/17 "2010-08-02T21:53:23Z")
To sum up: chicks dig it. ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/18 "2010-08-03T01:42:17Z")
Perhaps Colibri can shed more light on this, but, in my experience dealing with cardinals in a wildlife shelter, they are way more aggresive than most songbirds in that scenario. They have a bitchin’ bite, and will use it, going for tender hand areas. I’ve also observed them in a rather freak-out mode during breeding season attacking their mirror image in windows, guarding territory, to absurd lengths. Perhaps their bright plumage correlates with the aggression . If yer advertising, you’d be best to defend it. Colibri, any birdie testosterone comparison with songbirds? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/19 "2010-08-03T03:29:04Z")
Just another example of evolution doesn’t do what’s best. It does what works. It doesn’t matter how dumb something is, as long as it allows the species to live to an age where they can reproduce it’s fine. Look at humans, the windpipe and the food pipe cross. This is the stupidest design I can think of. But humans have a cough reflex or developed one. So despite this serious design flaw humans live to an age where they can reproduce before they choke to death. So let’s looks at cardinals? What eats them? I dunno, but as long as they can outmaneuver whatever eats them it’s fine with evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930/20 "2010-08-03T03:52:22Z")
> [@elelle](#): > > Perhaps Colibri can shed more light on this, but, in my experience dealing with cardinals in a wildlife shelter, they are way more aggresive than most songbirds in that scenario. They have a bitchin’ bite, and will use it, going for tender hand areas. > > I’ve also observed them in a rather freak-out mode during breeding season attacking their mirror image in windows, guarding territory, to absurd lengths. Perhaps their bright plumage correlates with the aggression . If yer advertising, you’d be best to defend it. > > Colibri, any birdie testosterone comparison with songbirds? Offhand, I can’t think of anything about cardinals (breeding system or other behavior) that would cause this. I do find that birds with stout bills are more apt to bite with it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-cardinals-birds-so-obvious/548930.md?page=2)