# Why are Christian Bookstores Allowed to Ban Books? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 5, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271 "2021-03-05T15:24:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/61 "2021-03-05T17:41:09Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > It would be better to break up the monopolies and provide alternatives. There are alternatives. The reason that they have a large market share is solely because they offer so much. People choose to use them because they are easy and convenient. I can find any book I want, vs having to go to 15 different book retailers if they were broken up. How would you break them up, by fiction vs non-fiction, biographies vs sciences? > [@DemonTree](#): > > But for something like Twitter, it would be feasible to insist they don’t ban any speech the government isn’t allowed to ban. I’m not sure how that related to Amazon, but I guess you are saying that Amazon should be required to carry any book that the govt isn’t allowed to ban? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/62 "2021-03-05T17:41:50Z")
So you started a terribly thought out thread over a problem that wasn’t even real and you failed to frame any sort of debate. Then you tried to re-argue other debates in a ATMB thread even though you know you’re not suppose to. Honestly, I’m not sure why you weren’t warned for the ATMB thread. You live a charmed life. I took it easy on you in GD and **ECG** took it easy on you in the ATMB thread and yet you insist on playing the victim card. * * * Also if you do start threads, maybe quote the pertinent sentence or sentences from your link? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/63 "2021-03-05T17:42:38Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > But for something like Twitter, it would be feasible to insist they don’t ban any speech the government isn’t allowed to ban. Surely you can see how stupid that is. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/64 "2021-03-05T17:54:47Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > But for something like Twitter, it would be feasible to insist they don’t ban any speech the government isn’t allowed to ban. Twitter isn’t the federal government and I don’t even think it’s mentioned in the US Constitution. I just checked. Yep… The 1st Amendment doesn’t even mention Twitter, that seems like a shameful oversight. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/65 "2021-03-05T17:56:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > How would you break them up, by fiction vs non-fiction, biographies vs sciences? The way LHoD suggested, have Amazon be a service that other sellers use, and Amazon optionally does the fulfilment. It already does provide this service. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > So you started a terribly thought out thread over a problem that wasn’t even real and you failed to frame any sort of debate. Then you tried to re-argue other debates in a ATMB thread even though you know you’re not suppose to. It _is_ a real problem, but I admit I could have done a much better job starting the thread. I wasn’t kidding when I said I’m not good at putting stuff into words, but I’ll try and do a better job next time. As for the rest, am I even allowed to talk about moderation here? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/66 "2021-03-05T17:57:56Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Only by the US definition where anyone vaguely to the left is a socialist. You’re literally demanding that the US government dictate what private companies do. That’s not “vaguely to the left”. That’s asking for the Soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/67 "2021-03-05T18:00:05Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You’re literally demanding that the US government dictate what private companies do. That’s not “vaguely to the left”. That’s asking for the Soviet Union. LOL. Are there no regulations in the good old US of A? I bet @k9bfriender can put you right. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/68 "2021-03-05T18:03:02Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The way LHoD suggested, have Amazon be a service that other sellers use, and Amazon optionally does the fulfilment. It already does provide this service. Okay, so I want to sell my book extolling the virtuous practice of pedonecrobestiality. Amazon has to list it? And moving away from content a bit, they have developed quite the transportation infrastructure, if I want to mail a package, should they have to let me use that as well? They also have video services, do they have to carry my TV show? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/69 "2021-03-05T18:03:51Z")
**Modhat on** : Technically, complaints about moderation/administration should be in ATMB. _But remember, that is not the place to reopen debates about other subjects._ _I’ll @Miller to verify if you can complain about moderation here. I think the answer is no._ ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/70 "2021-03-05T18:05:06Z")
Good thing I checked! But it’s a bit unfair to talk about it where I can’t risk replying… ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/71 "2021-03-05T18:05:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > They also have video services, do they have to carry my TV show? Only if it’s transphobic. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/72 "2021-03-05T18:07:42Z")
Like this documentary on detransitioners produced by the UK’s national broadcaster, for example? [https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2020/09/the-documentary](https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2020/09/the-documentary) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/73 "2021-03-05T18:08:15Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I’m not going to be silent and let evil triumph Thanks, now I have a “Battle Hymn of the Republic” earworm. ☹ Amazon’s policy on allowing “objectionable” books to be sold on the site has…evolved. "In 1998, when Amazon was an ambitious startup, its founder, Jeff Bezos, said, “We want to make every book available – the good, the bad and the ugly.” Customers’ reviews, he said, would “let truth loose.” > **[Amazon's book bans draws concern | Arkansas Democrat Gazette](https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/feb/11/amazon-s-book-bans-draws-concern-202002/)** > > During the past 18 months, Amazon has removed two books by David Duke, a former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, as well as several titles by George Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of the American Nazi Party. The online retailer has also prohibited volumes... I find it hard to argue that Amazon has an obligation to sell books by David Duke or those glorifying pedophilia, otherwise freedom of speech is somehow going down in flames. Amazon does need to be more transparent and consistent in what it removes from the site or doesn’t sell. Some grotesquely inaccurate and deceptive books about the Covid-19 pandemic and vaccination have been available for purchase for a long time on Amazon. Others get pulled or never see the light of day, for inexplicable reasons. For example, there’s a piece of dreck called “Covid Operation” (Covid = Covert, get it?) that Amazon happily sells, while another germ theory/Covid denialist book by a delicensed California physician was banned (several of his other books which could be considered equally threatening to public health are still on sale). Amazon’s standards are a mystery wrapped in an enigma. It shouldn’t be that way. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/74 "2021-03-05T18:08:50Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Are there no regulations in the good old US of A? I bet @k9bfriender can put you right. Regulations in the US say what a company may not do, and they sometimes say how a company has to do a specific task. They are meant for safety of workers and community. They do not tell a company what they must do, they do not compel a company to offer goods or services they do not wish to offer. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/75 "2021-03-05T18:11:29Z")
I’m not clicking on the link, but if it’s transphobic, then Amazon _must_ stream it. No other outcome really makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/76 "2021-03-05T18:15:27Z")
Any argument about how Amazon has outsized influence and whether that should be curtailed would be about pricing and such, not about what they choose or don’t choose to sell. That can’t ever be mandated. And thus I don’t think it’s something @DemonTree would actually be interested in discussing. The only thing she seems to care about is her idea of freedom of speech being infringed, along with trying to find some way to make it wrong to fight bigotry like transphobia. I’ve seen a few posts by here that aren’t on these topics. But never a thread. And. as I said before, they are essentially the same thread with slightly different details. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/77 "2021-03-05T18:18:48Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’ll @Miller to verify if you can complain about moderation here. I think the answer is no. [Moderating] In general, no. I give a little leeway for broad complaints, like “This board is too lenient on trolls,” but taking issue with specific moderation decisions should be done in ATMB, not in the Pit. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/78 "2021-03-05T18:21:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Any argument about how Amazon has outsized influence and whether that should be curtailed would be about pricing and such, not about what they choose or don’t choose to sell. That can’t ever be mandated. What if Amazon controls 50% of the market? [What if it’s 80%](https://publishers.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Joint-Letter-to-Rep-Cicilline-081720.pdf)? Is it problematic then if they choose to keep certain books off the market based on content they disagree with? Using transphobic trash as the example over and over is a terrible idea, but the larger problem is that nobody should have that much control over the marketplace of ideas. Treating Amazon as a utility accessible by many different companies would solve this problem; and the utility should no more be able to say “We won’t carry books by the Chinese Communist Party” than Verizon can say, “You’re not allowed to talk about Commies on our phone lines.” Utilities facilitate speech, they don’t regulate it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/79 "2021-03-05T18:33:26Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > "In 1998, when Amazon was an ambitious startup, its founder, Jeff Bezos, said, “We want to make every book available – the good, the bad and the ugly.” Customers’ reviews, he said, would “let truth loose.” Every internet startup proclaimed unsustainable policies that all opinions would be allowed. Remember how adamant Reddit was that it would never ban a topic? Well, the real world intervened. Now only the ugliest shitshain sites are nominally open to all, although that mostly means in practice that only the worst actors on their own side can post undisturbed. You know, DemonTree’s idea of paradise. Amazon has many flaws and there are threads to debate them. It suffers from the same fate that overtook YouTube and Facebook and many others: it’s too huge to police properly. How many books does it now carry? 6 million? 10 million? How many complaints will those generate? Thousands a day? Tens of thousands? Nor do we know if some of the books held out as bad examples were ever reported. As the mods here moan, we can’t moderate if you don’t report. Banning or allowing certain books is probably the least serious of all Amazon’s flaws, and definitely the smallest. How many titles of those millions are permanently affected? How many decisions are reversed, as with DemonTree’s example? They’re nothing but fodder for internet outrage and have virtually nothing to do with Amazon as a business or a social force. DNFTT. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271/80 "2021-03-05T18:39:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What if Amazon controls 50% of the market? [What if it’s 80%](https://publishers.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Joint-Letter-to-Rep-Cicilline-081720.pdf)? Is it problematic then if they choose to keep certain books off the market based on content they disagree with? Those are interesting numbers. If you are currently selling 100 books a month through various avenues, and then you start dealing with my distribution network, and now you are selling 800 books through me, and only 50 through your other channels, then you could make a similar complaint. And, not exactly those numbers, but that _is_ what is happening. Publishers are selling more books, more books are being sold overall, due to Amazon making it as easy as it is to get a book that you want into your hand. Publishers are making more money, the public has better access. the complaint is entirely that the publishers want to make more money. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Using transphobic trash as the example over and over is a terrible idea Those are the examples given, because those are the examples that @DemonTree complains about. Even when they actually are for sale, and @DemonTree just doesn’t know what the fuck she is talking about. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > the larger problem is that nobody should have that much control over the marketplace of ideas. Amazon is not the marketplace of ideas, they are a retailer. Unless you think that Random House should be required to publish my book, then you really can’t assert that Amazon has to carry it. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Treating Amazon as a utility accessible by many different companies would solve this problem; and the utility should no more be able to say “We won’t carry books by the Chinese Communist Party” than Verizon can say, “You’re not allowed to talk about Commies on our phone lines.” Utilities facilitate speech, they don’t regulate it. That’s a poor example. A better analogy would be what you are allowed to send using Verizon’s Enterprise Messaging, which, according to the FAQ > [@](#): > > Enterprise Messaging can’t be used to send unsolicited (SPAM), objectionable or illegal messages. Use of Enterprise Messaging is subject to industry (MMA, CTIA) and Verizon Wireless content standards. Now I doubt that Verizon has content standards that preclude talking about commies, just as Amazon doesn’t have any that would keep them from carrying books by the Chinese Communist Party. But, since you made the analogy, are you saying that Verizon’s content standards and determination of what is objectionable content should also be regulated? They may only find objectionable what is already illegal? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christian-bookstores-allowed-to-ban-books/937271.md?page=5)