# Why are Christians so full of hate? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 2, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670 "2018-04-02T21:16:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/141 "2018-04-04T06:54:15Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Again, if someone agrees that said guy needs help, and then doesn’t help — well, I figure he’d be just as bad as the guy who doesn’t help and points out that other folks need help too. But if someone _saved_ the struggling guy’s life while noting that he’s doing it because said guy’s life matters just as much to him as anyone else’s? Well, then, shucks, I’d figure that the rescuer would be just as fine a person as someone who saves the struggling guy while (a) implying that exact same sentiment while (b) only actually mentioning that said guy’s life matters. > > In your hypothetical, the sentiment being expressed doesn’t actually move them to perform the desired action. Okay, fine — but make sure to compare that with a situation where the sentiment being expressed is more palatable, but still fails to get paired with the desired action. Is there a difference? Is there a difference if both of those sentiments _do_ get paired with the desired action? If the parallel response was “all lives matter, but I understand that in our society black lives are being treated as mattering less and I want to do something about it” then you have a point. But ALM doesn’t get used in that way, doesn’t it? A parallel example might be those who ignore discrimination against Muslims, Jews, atheists and Sikhs, to name a few, and insist that the real problem is discrimination against Christians, especially those who own businesses which can’t treat gay people like shit. Or who are oppressed by forcing to see gay people holding hands in public! It seems a common tactic of the right to take their sins and project them upon others, with Trump being the master of this tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/142 "2018-04-04T14:25:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Oh, _that_ guy? Fuck that guy, he’s an asshole. > > If you go up to someone and say, “My knee hurts,” and he responds, “Lots of peoples knees hurt,” that person isn’t expressing concern for all the hurt knees of the world. He’s belittling your complaint. He’s an asshole. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But that’s just it: such people would, when saying it, mean it as a parallel sentiment. And if one of them said it to another, it would be understood — rather than, y’know, _misunderstood_ — as that parallel sentiment. And if both of them said it to me, then I’d have little choice but to correctly understand them as meaning that parallel sentiment, because, well, they _would,_ wouldn’t they? When it comes down to it, a person who says “all lives matter” and honestly believes that they’re doing it independently of the context of BLM is wrong about their motivations. I would be willing to say that that is true of 100% of American citizens. Every statement of “all lives matter” is, as **Miller** notes, a statement about BLM. Note, I am not suggesting that a person who expresses compassion and love for all people cannot do so sincerely, nor that they cannot communicate that compassion with words in a way that means ‘all lives matter’ in the literal sense. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/143 "2018-04-04T14:35:44Z")
“All Lives Matter” can insinuate that the person saying it thinks there is no imbalance in the system, that(as far as she/he is concerned) there is no problem that needs to be rectified. I think “All Lives Should Matter” is a better way to acknowledge that there is still work to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/144 "2018-04-04T14:39:25Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > What was that line… something about whitened sepulchres… Yeah, I think you’re far from the first to notice that. That tolerance of the painted tombs seems to me to be yet another manifestation of tribalism: that person is one of us, therefore by definition ok, where the same behavior would be condemned in an outsider. Yeah, but specifically: if someone is a dick, in addition to being a member of some group, that’s just the way the cards fall; if membership of that group affords the person a specific opportunity to regularly exercise the practice of being a dick, then it’s a different kinda thing. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/145 "2018-04-04T14:43:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Why do you believe this? > > I think it pretty likely most people who say they’re Christians are Christians. If that means an uncomfortable number of Christians are intolerant, well, that’s just how it is. I guess because while I claimed to be a Christian, I really wasn’t one, at all. Oh I was the same as the many, many Christians around me - thinking I was all superior and hating and judging on everyone different than I. When I was a teen, one of my friends hung herself and some of my other friends found her. I happened to be at the youth pastors house at the time he got the call about what had happened. You know what he said to me? He said “Satan is laughing at Sheila in hell right now”. That’s how we felt about someone we actually liked! Imagine how we felt about some poor gay boy being beaten to death. People like that, like me, can call themselves “christian” and maybe that’s what Christianity really is, at its core - a religion of hate and intolerance. But in my heart I just don’t think that’s what it was intended to be. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/146 "2018-04-04T14:48:18Z")
> [@Doubticus](#): > > He calls to the people on the boat, “I need help” and the people on the boat respond, “We all need help!” And then someone rushes to lower the lifeboats but no one helps them lower them. The person manages to make it back on board anyway and then the previously-overboard person runs right up to the person who was trying to help them and screams “WHY DIDN’T YOU HELP ME! I NEEDED HELP!” Because it’s their fault their compatriots didn’t do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/147 "2018-04-04T14:52:31Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > And then someone rushes to lower the lifeboats but no one helps them lower them. The person manages to make it back on board anyway and then the previously-overboard person runs right up to the person who was trying to help them and screams “WHY DIDN’T YOU HELP ME! I NEEDED HELP!” Because it’s their fault their jcompatriots didn’t do anything. I’m confused. Which one said “We all need help”? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/148 "2018-04-04T14:58:16Z")
A different person. The person who tried to lower the lifeboat still got treated like they didn’t think that anyone needed help. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/149 "2018-04-04T15:02:46Z")
I will repeat an extract from a recent post, with underlining mine, as the underlining part is what I wish to address. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > [ul] > [li]Black people are being shot by police at a disproportionate rate, often with little or no justification for use of force.[/li][li]Police and officials often respond in a protective or dismissive way toward these events.[/li][li]This response leaves the impression that, for police and officials, the lives of black people do not matter.[/li][li]Concerned people have responded by creating a movement titled “Black Lives Matter” intended to bring this issue publicity and discussion.[/li][li]This movement and the intent behind it has been widely discussed in media and anyone who claims to be informed should be familiar with it.[/li][li]Responding with “All Lives Matter” is a way of dismissing the issue and diverting from the discussion about why black people are being shot by police at a disproportionate rate.[/li][/ul] I do not agree that ALM is a way of dismissing or diverting the issue. It is a way of expanding the issue. Should we try to reduce the beating/killing of black people by the police? Certainly. But we should attempt to cover more ground, and try to reduce beating/killing of ALL people who are similarly, irrationally, targeted. Whatever laws, review boards, investigations, prosecutions, etc. that result from BLM concerns should not be limited to color lines, but incorporate a humanitarian umbrella, and we’ll all be better off for it. A personal note. I have never been subjected to police abuse for racial reasons, but I _have_ been subjected to it because the police have considerable latitude and relatively little oversight to restrain them. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/150 "2018-04-04T15:04:14Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > A different person. The person who tried to lower the lifeboat still got treated like they didn’t think that anyone needed help. Did they lower the lifeboat or not? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/151 "2018-04-04T15:19:27Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I will repeat an extract from a recent post, with underlining mine, as the underlining part is what I wish to address.I do not agree that ALM is a way of dismissing or diverting the issue. It is a way of expanding the issue. Should we try to reduce the beating/killing of black people by the police? Certainly. But we should attempt to cover more ground, and try to reduce beating/killing of ALL people who are similarly, irrationally, targeted. > > Whatever laws, review boards, investigations, prosecutions, etc. that result from BLM concerns should not be limited to color lines, but incorporate a humanitarian umbrella, and we’ll all be better off for it. But based on numbers, it’s clear that we have done a great job reducing the risk to white people relative to people of color, even though some white people are also targeted by or fall victim to power-mad/ill-trained law enforcement and legislation. It’s clear that we have failed when it comes to black people. With that knowledge, ALM cannot be anything but a dismissing of the whole raison d’etre of BLM, which is a response to the fact that blacks are predictably imprisoned, beaten, and killed in circumstances where white people are not. “All lives matter” does not exist except as a response to “Black lives matter”, and so is always a commentary on and correction to BLM. It implies that heightened concern for mistreatment of black people relative to mistreatment of white people is unnecessary and maybe even a little racist against white people, even in the face of the numbers that show unequivocally that blacks suffer disproportionately at the hands of law enforcement and the judicial system than whites. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/152 "2018-04-04T16:15:20Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Aside from the minor sidenote discussion about BLM, it seems the conversation on the thread topic is that Chrisitianity doesn’t make people assholes; it merely attracts people who already are assholes. > > I’d like to lodge a point of disagreement here. Yes, people who are already assholes fit right in with Christianity (though I can’t imagine somebody _converting_ due to that), but it’s not the case that you have to be an inherent asshole to be made an asshole by Christianity. > > I have a mother. (Implausible, I know.) She’s a christian, and the sweetest lady you ever met. > > She opposes gay marriage, and votes that opposition. If you’re a gay person she’s part of the side that is oppressing you. > > She does this _entirely_ because her religion tells her to. > > Christianity is, in most of its forms and incarnations, an authoritarian religion - there’s somebody in charge, and his mandates are beyond question. Which means that if the authority mandates that you do something bad, then that’s what you’ll do. > > And that’s without getting into the philosophical consequences of there being a god handing out rewards to good people and punishments to bad people - that poor person must be _bad_ or they wouldn’t be poor; that person must be _bad_ or he wouldn’t be on trial/in prison. Not every christian thinks that way, but if one does (and many do), there are clear metaphysical arguments justifying that view. I would like to add on to **begbert** ’s observation a bit: Many (but not all) Christians oppose homosexuality because they feel compelled by their religion to do so in much the same way that Muslims can’t eat pork. Many Christian bakers are not baking gay-wedding cakes with much the same type of motivation as Muslims who won’t eat pork. I think this is something many LGBT supporters don’t understand; they think that mere legal threats or criticism can persuade Christian bakers to change their mind. They do not understand the intensity behind the conviction. You won’t get a Muslim to eat a ham sandwich by criticizing or threatening to sue him if he doesn’t and you won’t convince an anti-gay-marriage Christian baker to bake a gay wedding cake that way either. (Before someone says “eating pork and baking gay wedding cakes are different” - what I am saying is, they are both based in the same motive - “I cannot do what my religion prohibits.” And before someone says “But other Christians don’t have a problem with gay cakes” - they might not, but others do, and those who do, have very strong convictions.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/153 "2018-04-04T16:44:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Did they lower the lifeboat or not? They couldn’t: it was a two person job. They could have dove in with a life jacket but that would be putting their own lives at risk, which is an understandable if not 100% optimal choice. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/154 "2018-04-04T16:51:20Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > They couldn’t: it was a two person job. They could have dove in with a life jacket but **that would be putting their own lives at risk** , which is an understandable if not 100% optimal choice. Ah, but Christians should be lined up, hoping to get a shot of giving their life for someone else: John 15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/155 "2018-04-04T16:56:20Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Ah, but Christians should be lined up, hoping to get a shot of giving their life for someone else: > John 15:13: > > Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. This lifeboat analogy has gotten extremely convoluted by this point. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/156 "2018-04-04T17:05:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This lifeboat analogy has gotten extremely convoluted by this point. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/157 "2018-04-04T17:06:20Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > And then someone rushes to lower the lifeboats but no one helps them lower them. The person manages to make it back on board anyway and then the previously-overboard person runs right up to the person who was trying to help them and screams “WHY DIDN’T YOU HELP ME! I NEEDED HELP!” Because it’s their fault their compatriots didn’t do anything. I think what happens here is that the person yells at the whole crowd of onlookers, asking why none of them helped. The person who thought about helping, but didn’t actually do anything useful takes it personally and gets shitty with the guy that almost drowned. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/158 "2018-04-04T17:10:01Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Ah, but Christians should be lined up, hoping to get a shot of giving their life for someone else: > John 15:13: > > Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life **for his friends.** Doesn’t say nuthin’ about complete strangers. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/159 "2018-04-04T17:15:00Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I do not agree that ALM is a way of dismissing or diverting the issue. It is a way of expanding the issue. Should we try to reduce the beating/killing of black people by the police? Certainly. But we should attempt to cover more ground, and try to reduce beating/killing of ALL people who are similarly, irrationally, targeted. > > Whatever laws, review boards, investigations, prosecutions, etc. that result from BLM concerns should not be limited to color lines, but incorporate a humanitarian umbrella, and we’ll all be better off for it. If the humanitarian umbrella already is there for most of us, but people of color disproportionately find themselves out in the rain, what’s the point of talking about the need for the umbrella? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670/160 "2018-04-04T17:41:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This lifeboat analogy has gotten extremely convoluted by this point. I guess now’s not the time for me to continue with “well what if there were another group of people who also aren’t being saved by a ship but they’re in the middle of a rather large lake so some of them can swim to shore.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-christians-so-full-of-hate/811670.md?page=9)