# Why are conservatives so interested in controlling other people's sexuality? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950 "2018-03-21T05:47:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/101 "2018-03-23T23:43:10Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > All social science shows that children raised in two parent households are better off than those raised by single mothers. They are better economically and have better mental health and are less likely to be criminals. That’s a good quote. My coworker used to throw that around quite a lot. Then I showed him articles from the 1990’s and 2000’s showing that gender made no difference – two women, two men, mixed genders. The point was that it helps to have differing schedules so somebody is available for support and guidance, and differences of opinion that are worked out so that conflict resolution is demonstrated. My coworker stopped throwing that quote around. –G! ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/102 "2018-03-23T23:44:52Z")
> [@Egnu\_Cledge](#): > > … > > If we can meet the needs of the ill and disabled through pensions, social security, and medicare, and Conservatives still want to wipe out those programs, then survival cannot be their true goal. Once again they’ve chosen to focus on controlling people’s sexual selves to the detriment of everyone and everything else. The better side of liberalism: The baby isn’t very dirty today - I know he always has a bath, but not today. The better side of conservatism: We have always given the baby a bath, so we will continue to do so. The worse side of liberalism: To hell with baths anyway! The worse side of conservatism: Still giving baby a bath every night, though he’s 40 years old and lives in another country. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/103 "2018-03-23T23:45:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You are asking why are conservatives conservative. If you go back 60 years or so, the current conservative views on sexuality were the norm. Sex outside marriage was bad, gay sex was not only bad but a sign of a mental disorder, and abortion was generally condemned. During the 60s and 70s, many of those traditional sexual mores went out the window. But if you were a conservative, i.e., you resit change, that didn’t happen for you. Right. Most people grow up, grow out of it, and move on with their lives. Why haven’t they? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/104 "2018-03-24T00:24:53Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Right. Most people grow up, grow out of it, and move on with their lives. Why haven’t they? Because the things they’re mentally hanging on to are marked in their mental notebooks with a highlighter, and have “Survival Issue!!” scribbled in the margin beside them in red ink. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/105 "2018-03-24T18:38:30Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > The better side of liberalism: The baby isn’t very dirty today - I know he always has a bath, but not today. > > The better side of conservatism: We have always given the baby a bath, so we will continue to do so. > > The worse side of liberalism: To hell with baths anyway! > > The worse side of conservatism: Still giving baby a bath every night, though he’s 40 years old and lives in another country. Libertarian: The baby should give himself a bath, and not depend on the nanny parents. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/106 "2018-03-26T14:46:51Z")
First off, everyone is a utopian. We all envision a ‘better world’ and most of us want to work toward creating that better world. Conservatives are cultural preservationists. They see the past as holding more clues to what that better world should look like. They envision a better world as a place of sameness and comfort. Where we get along largely because we share values and experiences. For them, utopia is a place of stability where they can go to the same diner that existed 10 years ago and order the same thing that they ordered then. Where they can shop at a store owned by the same guy for the last 50 years and buy the same thing that they bought yesterday for roughly the same amount of money. Because of this, they identify and react to threats against this ‘sameness.’ Part of this is certainly that LGBTQ people are by their nature ‘different’ than the mainstream, but really, the reaction is against sexual libertinism. They see the greatest threat to ‘sameness’ as the dissolution of what we term today ‘the nuclear family.’ They think this is what leads to higher poverty rates, more migration, children raised ‘poorly’ and a host of other social ills. They place the blame for the dissolution of the nuclear family on the sexual revolution and everything it brought with it, including the rise in people identifying with ‘non-traditional’ sexualities. It should be pointed out that there is nothing inherently irrational about this. Change is not an easy thing to deal with and as you get older it gets harder. Nostalgia is also a powerful force. I’m 40 years old and there are people, places and things that once brought me an incredible amount of happiness that no longer exist and I don’t feel as though the things that do exist now will ever be able to replicate those feelings for me. It’s not completely irrational for me to want to preserve those things and moments or to preserve a culture which I feel brought me much joy. Change is also fun and exciting when you’re younger, but as you age, it’s harder and harder to keep up and that’s something that everyone has to come to terms with. As you age, skills and abilities that you worked hard to possess become diminished in value as new things replace them and it’s harder for you to gain the skills and abilities that are now valuable, so you as an individual become in some ways less valuable. It’s not irrational for you to react against that. It’s one of the reasons that people become more conservative as they age. It’s one of the realities of life that the people leading the revolution in their 20s become the vanguards of the status quo in their 60s. It’s why baby-boomers are seen as stodgy conservatives now when in the 70s, they were progressive libertines. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/107 "2018-03-26T17:05:45Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > First off, everyone is a utopian. We all envision a ‘better world’ and most of us want to work toward creating that better world. Bullshit. Some of us actually just want to watch the world burn. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/108 "2018-03-26T17:54:18Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > First off, everyone is a utopian. We all envision a ‘better world’ and most of us want to work toward creating that better world. “Utopia” literally/etymologically means “no place.” Arguably the opposite of a utopian is a realist, who’s working toward a better world while the utopians are futilely striving for a perfect world. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/109 "2018-03-26T18:00:15Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > I respectfully and in all seriousness state that an “Old Testament Christian” is a contradiction in terms, and is not a possibility either in theory or in practice. Being “Old Testament” inescapably means being without Jesus. I completely agree, but that hasn’t stopped people from embracing that contradiction. The crusades were fought in the name of a God of love. The KKK uses a burning cross, symbol of Jesus who gave us a new commandment; “Love one another.” I could go on and on. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/110 "2018-03-26T18:15:54Z")
It’s rooted in the basic suspicion that somebody else might be having fun. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/111 "2018-03-26T20:40:46Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I completely agree, but that hasn’t stopped people from embracing that contradiction. The crusades were fought in the name of a God of love. The KKK uses a burning cross, symbol of Jesus who gave us a new commandment; “Love one another.” I could go on and on. I’m saying that embracing the contradiction - in whatever way - immediately disqualifies the embracer from being a Christian. And I’ll further say that recognizing that fact would throw a wrench into far too many plans, and that’s why people don’t recognize it. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/112 "2018-03-26T20:54:49Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > I’m saying that embracing the contradiction - in whatever way - immediately disqualifies the embracer from being a Christian. And I’ll further say that recognizing that fact would throw a wrench into far too many plans, and that’s why people don’t recognize it. Given that there is no unifying defining authority on the subject, _nothing_ disqualifies anyone from being a christian. Each person defines the word their own way and nobody has the authority to tell them they’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/113 "2018-03-26T22:19:58Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Given that there is no unifying defining authority on the subject, _nothing_ disqualifies anyone from being a christian. Each person defines the word their own way and nobody has the authority to tell them they’re wrong. You’re right. And. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/114 "2018-03-26T22:43:41Z")
And the title “christian” has been inescapably tainted by association with the less moral persons who claim it. If that bothers you I would recommend finding a more tightly defined label for your beliefs that you feel excludes those who you wish not to be associated with and associate yourself with that label in your mind - perhaps the name of your particular sect. But “christian” is not such a label and can not be reclaimed as one - No True Scotsman awaits you if you try. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/115 "2018-03-27T00:26:17Z")
Seeing the desire for the status quo and continuation of cultural “sameness” as a positive depends on whose perspective that worldview is seen thru. Many, many, MANY perspectives that are part of our society see the status quo as something that needs to be smashed. It’s basically one lone (if not largest) perspective that is valued by conservatives: their own. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/116 "2018-03-27T01:21:23Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Seeing the desire for the status quo and continuation of cultural “sameness” as a positive depends on whose perspective that worldview is seen thru. Many, many, MANY perspectives that are part of our society see the status quo as something that needs to be smashed. It’s basically one lone (if not largest) perspective that is valued by conservatives: their own. And this status quo was only ever achievable due the oppression and marginalization of all those who disrupted that status quo. So Conservatives want to conserve and preserve a past that is only palatable when seen thru willfully ignorant rose-colored lenses. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/117 "2018-03-27T01:57:36Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > First off, everyone is a utopian. We all envision a ‘better world’ and most of us want to work toward creating that better world. Congratulations: You just killed the word. Words are useful to the extent they allow us to talk about things, and that involves creating words to describe differences. If you say a word applies to literally every member of what you’re talking about, it’s worthless. You killed it. This is why specialists in a field come up with jargon: Not to keep people out, but to make sure their damned words don’t get killed. Now, in real-world talk, utopians are the people with grand plans. Utopians have some idea for reforming the world and will work towards that idea in their politics, and have a distressing tendency to see everything in relation to that one idea, such that all issues become purity tests, as in, you can’t be a real supporter if you don’t think this way on this issue, even if that issue has no bearing on the big idea. Anyway, centrists are not utopians. Centrists want to solve immediate problems with good solutions, which does involve looking down the road to see the likely outcomes, but they have no huge long-term plan. Centrism is not utopian because of the converse of the purity test paradigm: Centrists are willing to compromise, which means they’re able to govern. To be clear: Governing is defined as getting policy accomplished when you _don’t_ have dictatorial power. Pinochet didn’t govern. Mao didn’t govern. Stalin didn’t govern, once he had full power. Hitler set up pointless political bickering in the serpent’s nest he called a government, but he most certainly did not govern. Therefore, the center is where the action is. It’s where policy is accomplished, and where effective change happens. To a utopian, it is where dreams go to die, and given how many utopian dreams turn out to be nightmares, that is a very, very good thing. Conservative utopians are reactionaries, whose grand plan involves undoing social change. Most or all GOPpers are reactionaries to some extent, given that the official Republican Party platform involves undoing social change such as abortion rights and GLBTQ+ rights and so on. Centrist conservatives are Blue Dog Democrats, willing to work within the system as opposed to holding dogmatically to positions which have no chance of passing in the system as it is. And that’s the big point: Utopians demand that the world come to them, centrists are willing to work to move the world to a better place. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/118 "2018-03-27T02:17:18Z")
> [@Egnu\_Cledge](#): > > I read a lot of Camus when I was younger You have my sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/119 "2018-03-27T02:20:37Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > First off, everyone is a utopian. We all envision a ‘better world’ and most of us want to work toward creating that better world. > > Conservatives are cultural preservationists. They see the past as holding more clues to what that better world should look like. They envision a better world as a place of sameness and comfort. Where we get along largely because we share values and experiences. For them, utopia is a place of stability where they can go to the same diner that existed 10 years ago and order the same thing that they ordered then. Where they can shop at a store owned by the same guy for the last 50 years and buy the same thing that they bought yesterday for roughly the same amount of money. Because of this, they identify and react to threats against this ‘sameness.’ Part of this is certainly that LGBTQ people are by their nature ‘different’ than the mainstream, but really, the reaction is against sexual libertinism. They see the greatest threat to ‘sameness’ as the dissolution of what we term today ‘the nuclear family.’ They think this is what leads to higher poverty rates, more migration, children raised ‘poorly’ and a host of other social ills. They place the blame for the dissolution of the nuclear family on the sexual revolution and everything it brought with it, including the rise in people identifying with ‘non-traditional’ sexualities. Wow. You are so far wrong in that, you’re not even in the same zip code with correct. One of the biggest differences between conservatives and liberals is that liberals are all about change for change’s sake. Conservatives aren’t. We have nothing against change, but we think change should occur as part of a thought-out process, not just a whim. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950/120 "2018-03-27T02:59:49Z")
No we’re not. What a ridiculous assertion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-conservatives-so-interested-in-controlling-other-peoples-sexuality/810950.md?page=7)