# Why are crush deaths at sporting events almost exclusively at soccer games? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 3, 2022, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610 "2022-10-03T05:02:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/41 "2022-10-04T18:06:21Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > It’s soccer. I assume some of those crush deaths occurred when a fan faked a fall. You are correct, it is the sport itself that engenders violence from the fans. What kind of sport doesn’t let you use your hands? How can it even be called a sport when game scores rarely exceed 1-0? When American fans act pointlessly stupid at least it’s over a real sport and happens on 10¢ beer night. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/42 "2022-10-04T20:32:14Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Do European children not generally go to football games until they’re old enough to defend themselves? I’m just going by images I’ve seen of European soccer spectators like this one: [![](https://images.lbc.co.uk/images/301149?crop=16_9&width=660&relax=1&signature=8Y8u4jsh1AWdOFTJlFe6iixoy9Y=) ](https://images.lbc.co.uk/images/301149?crop=16_9&width=660&relax=1&signature=8Y8u4jsh1AWdOFTJlFe6iixoy9Y=) ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/43 "2022-10-04T20:49:39Z")
Are you sure that’s not a Trump rally? Oh, wait. Too well-attended for that. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/44 "2022-10-04T21:42:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You are correct, it is the sport itself that engenders violence from the fans. What kind of sport doesn’t let you use your hands? How can it even be called a sport when game scores rarely exceed 1-0? When American fans act pointlessly stupid at least it’s over a real sport and happens on 10¢ beer night. How to say you’re a Boomer without saying you’re a Boomer. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/45 "2022-10-05T13:59:52Z")
I believe he was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/46 "2022-10-05T16:12:16Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Do European children not generally go to football games until they’re old enough to defend themselves? I can only speak for Germany, but here it’s generally no problem to bring children to a Bundesliga game. The hardcore fans are always separated from the mainstream spectators, usually there are sections (mostly standing places in the curves/at the short ends) for the home fans and another for the visiting fans at opposite sides of the stadium, and the rest are seated places where you can take your kids and are usually spared from aggressive fans. What you can’t spare them from are lewd chants, but those were one of the most interesting things for me when my father first took me to a Bundesliga game in 1978 (Schalke-Gladbach) when I was ten. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/47 "2022-10-05T16:18:48Z")
So when you buy your ticket, do they ask you which team you support and if you want to sit with the rough crowd or the calm crowd? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/48 "2022-10-05T16:22:17Z")
In a way, they do, but most spectators are experienced enough to ask for tickets in a seated area and not in the fan curves in the first place when they bring children. The hardcore fans, often called Ultras here, will want to have a ticket in their own block with standing places anyway. That’s part of the tradition and to a degree, part of the fascination. It’s a different experience witnessing a football game standing with 25,000 others (like here at Dortmund’s “Süd”) than sitting somewhere among “normal” spectators. [![](https://amp.spox.com/de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/1310/Bilder/hans-joachim-watzke-600.jpg) ](https://amp.spox.com/de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/1310/Bilder/hans-joachim-watzke-600.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/49 "2022-10-05T16:34:36Z")
Yes, but in the manner of a Boomer, which I proudly am for no particularly good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/50 "2022-10-05T16:43:37Z")
So how dangerous is it in general if a fan wants to purposefully sit in the wrong crowd? If a Schalke fan decides, yes, I WANT to sit amidst the yellow Dortmund fans, will he get mauled? (or a Millwall fan sitting among the Leeds) ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/51 "2022-10-05T16:55:03Z")
Swiss hooligans (“Chaoten” in German): > **[Swiss hooligans vandalise Brussels restaurant Le Falstaff at Bourse](https://www.brusselstimes.com/278155/swiss-hooligans-vandalise-brussels-restaurant-le-falstaff-at-bourse)** > > "It is possible that this is some kind of revenge in Brussels. On some Swiss supporters, we even found weapons such as brass knuckles." And last week (damage to the bus is 2200 CHF which is about 2200 USD): > **[YB-Chaoten beschädigen VBL-Bus nach FCL-Spiel | zentralplus](https://www.zentralplus.ch/fc-luzern/yb-chaoten-beschaedigen-vbl-bus-nach-fcl-spiel-2462615/)** > > Die YB-Fans haben am Sonntag nach dem Spiel gegen den FC Luzern einen VBL-Bus beschädigt. Trotz ihres 2:1-Sieges. Yes, it’s safe to go to the football games as it is fairly easy to avoid the hooligans. Unfortunately it’s not so safe for the buses, trains and other property. The local club has been trying to convince their fans to stop painting everything blue and white, but haven’t had much luck. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/52 "2022-10-05T17:10:23Z")
‘Swiss hooligans’ now? What happened to neutrality? I’d watch out for those guys, they probably have those fancy knives. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/53 "2022-10-05T17:12:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If a Schalke fan decides, yes, I WANT to sit amidst the yellow Dortmund fans, will he get mauled? You’ve touched on the fiercest fan rivalry in Germany, and yes, a Schalke fan in whole gear at the Südtribüne at Dortmund would be a provocation, and he would be lucky to get out alive. If you’re clothed neutral and don’t cheer at the wrong goals (those for the team opposing Dortmund), you’re good. I had that experience once as a Gladbach fan in the Dortmund fan curve when this was the last ticket I could get. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/54 "2022-10-05T17:27:25Z")
Ranging from very, to extremely dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/55 "2022-10-05T17:42:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So how dangerous is it in general if a fan wants to purposefully sit in the wrong crowd? > > If a Schalke fan decides, yes, I WANT to sit amidst the yellow Dortmund fans, will he get mauled? > > (or a Millwall fan sitting among the Leeds) In Atlanta, if you sit in the Supporter’s Section you are not allowed to wear opposing team colors. The ushers will simply refuse to seat you there, even if you have a ticket (which has those requirements listed on them). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/56 "2022-10-06T15:27:41Z")
After the crush deaths in Cincinnati at The Who concert, festival or standing tickets were mostly banned in the US. I went to many concerts and sporting events in my teen years and never had standing tickets. Less than 10 years later I’m stationed in Germany and all the concerts I go to are standing room. One Monsters of Rock show I went to did get pretty crushy. If you are going to have packed standing room sections without other mitigation there will eventually be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/57 "2022-10-06T16:10:47Z")
There are standing room tickets at Fenway but they are assigned to areas in the back. They’d be unlikely to cause any crush problems. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/58 "2022-10-06T23:41:20Z")
I think they were only banned in Cincinnati. There are still plenty of standing concerts in most cities. I’ve been to several in the Bay Area just in the last few months. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/59 "2022-10-07T00:02:00Z")
That might have been coincidence - the only concert I’ve ever been at with a lot of standing tickets was a concert at the PNC Bank Arts center in NJ around 2002 or so. Every concert I was at before that one ( going back to 1978) had assigned seating, at least for most of the venue. It’s possible that Madison Square Garden , etc had some standing room tickets at some concerts - but my seats would have been too high up to see if the people right in front of the stage had seats. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610/60 "2022-10-07T01:50:39Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I think they were only banned in Cincinnati. There are still plenty of standing concerts in most cities. I’ve been to several in the Bay Area just in the last few months. There was no federal law but there certainly was a push on the local level to ban it. That was over 40 years ago. About 40 years longer than politician’s attention span. I have seen things relaxed since then. And I was only talking about large venues. Bar shows never had the same controls. > [@doreen](#): > > That might have been coincidence - the only concert I’ve ever been at with a lot of standing tickets was a concert at the PNC Bank Arts center in NJ around 2002 or so. Every concert I was at before that one ( going back to 1978) had assigned seating, at least for most of the venue. It’s possible that Madison Square Garden , etc had some standing room tickets at some concerts - but my seats would have been too high up to see if the people right in front of the stage had seats. PNC has lawn seats which are not the same as SRO. It’s designed for people to sit on lawn chairs or blankets. They don’t sell enough seats to make people stand shoulder to shoulder. That and the fact that the lawn seats are to the rear behind 5,000 seats means there isn’t going to be a crowd pushing and getting crushed against the stage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-crush-deaths-at-sporting-events-almost-exclusively-at-soccer-games/972610.md?page=4)