# Why are dead people "late"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 14, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997 "2004-04-14T17:08:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![billy\_meade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@billy\_meade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billy_meade)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/1 "2004-04-14T17:08:07Z")
What is the origin of the phrase “the late” in reference to a dead person? What are they late for? Or does it have some other meaning? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/2 "2004-04-14T17:25:58Z")
A Google search on “late deceased usage” turned up [this site,](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990616) which you may find enlightening: > [@](#): > > The senses of interest to us are adjectival, and parallel the adverbial senses. There is a ‘recent’ sense (“a late news bulletin”) and a ‘recently but not now’ sense (“the late attorney general”). It is from this last that the sense of current interest, ‘recently deceased’, arose. The ‘recently deceased’ sense may be seen as a specialization of the ‘recently but not now’ sense. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/3 "2004-04-14T17:42:35Z")
You’re only “late” for a year. For instance, “the late Spalding Gray” would be correct, but not “the late George Burns.” ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/4 "2004-04-14T18:01:46Z")
In most cases, dead people cannot be on time for anything. Not to speak ill of the dead, but they have some difficulty getting around. I’m specifically excluding a handful of rock bands with “dead” in their names. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/5 "2004-04-14T18:21:26Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > In most cases, dead people cannot be on time for anything. Not to speak ill of the dead, but they have some difficulty getting around. I’m specifically excluding a handful of rock bands with “dead” in their names. Why exclude them? When the last time (or even the first time) you heard of a rock concert starting at the announced time? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/6 "2004-04-14T19:49:36Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > You’re only “late” for a year. For instance, “the late Spalding Gray” would be correct, but not “the late George Burns.” What is it after a year? The ‘dead’ George Burns, the ‘longtime stiff’ George Burns (wait, that works anyway), the ‘former’ George Burns? What is the magic phrase after being dead for a year? ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/7 "2004-04-14T19:57:02Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > What is it after a year? The ‘dead’ George Burns, the ‘longtime stiff’ George Burns (wait, that works anyway), the ‘former’ George Burns? What is the magic phrase after being dead for a year? To hazard a guess, by the end of the year everyone is assumed to be aware that the person is dead, and there is no langer a need for any special reference. This may not be true in today’s society where there is widespread reference to otherwise unknown people, but was probably true for the more limited social circles of earlier times when this rule was probably formed. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/8 "2004-04-14T20:02:22Z")
Linguistically I think it’s the same as when the phrase “late of” is used to say that a person was recently elsewhere or had some other affiliation until recently. Viz. _The Hendersons will all be there, late of Pablo Fanques fair, what a scene._ _Please meet Dr. Pugsley, late of the Sarbanes-Oxley Institute For Wasting The Time Of Programmers Who Already Have Ample, and Much More Enjoyable Ways To Avoid Getting Their Work Done_ As for dead people, I guess the idea is that they are late…“of life”. ---
**Author:** ![AllShookDown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d9b06d/32.png) [@AllShookDown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllShookDown)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/9 "2004-04-14T23:45:59Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Not to speak ill of the dead, but Why not? It’s pretty safe, ain’t it? (Did that line come from Anne of Green Gables or Pollyanna?) ---
**Author:** ![stargazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@stargazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stargazer)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/10 "2004-04-15T00:12:58Z")
> [@AllShookDown](#): > > Why not? It’s pretty safe, ain’t it? (Did that line come from Anne of Green Gables or Pollyanna?) _Anne of Green Gables_. Davy said (or wrote?) it to Anne. Geez, it’s scary that I know that. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/11 "2004-04-15T02:39:02Z")
The editors of OED think that it derives from one of the adverb definitions of “late:” a) Recently; of late; in recent times; not long since; but now; (obsolete) not long ago b) Not long since (but not now); recently (but no longer) “Late” meaning “recently departed” is attested since the 15th century with the meaning of “being recently alive, but no longer.” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/12 "2004-04-15T03:32:12Z")
“You’ll be late for your own funeral.” “Well, I should hope so.” ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/13 "2004-04-15T06:02:44Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > Why exclude them? When the last time (or even the first time) you heard of a rock concert starting at the announced time? The last rock concert I attended that actually started on time was the next to last show that Jerry Garcia played with the Grateful Dead. The next night, the outside crowd tore down the fence at the same venue (Deer Creek, now called Verizon,) and the GD cancelled the rest of the tour. ---
**Author:** ![TheLadyLion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d78d45/32.png) [@TheLadyLion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLadyLion)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/14 "2004-04-15T06:28:13Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > What is it after a year? The ‘dead’ George Burns, the ‘longtime stiff’ George Burns (wait, that works anyway), the ‘former’ George Burns? What is the magic phrase after being dead for a year? Deceased? ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-dead-people-late/239997/15 "2004-04-15T10:06:03Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > In most cases, dead people cannot be on time for anything. Not to speak ill of the dead, but they have some difficulty getting around. I’m specifically excluding a handful of rock bands with “dead” in their names. I came into this thread just to say this.