There is a difference between the MAGAs and the regular GOP.
Not so openly, then they they openly lied about it.
Excellent takedown of a nonsense straw man! Feel free to read my actual words and respond, if you wish.
Cite? I haven’t seen any gop eenators say the current subsidies should be extended as is. A few have said they could continue in some different or scaled back form from what ive seen.
They agreed to give a bill a fair shake, then voted it down within minutes.
That isn’t a lie. They promised an up or down vote and then they did that. They held out from giving in to democratic demands because they didn’t want to simply add the subsidy extension in, and when asked to vote on that they all voted not to add the subsidy extension in.
I don’t know how the numbers will break, but there are House Democrats who aren’t satisfied…
Yeah - I think it was worth it. The only way I was affected is that I haven’t received a paycheck in over a month. And the associated stress.
IMO, it generated considerable and undeniable press over how bad the Repubs are willing to let things get; how badly they are willing to treat their own supporters. And how unwilling they are to negotiate - or even remain in town. I’m not sure what more could have been accomplished if it had gone how much longer. But the Dems will have 2 months to spin their story before the end of January. And then into the primaries and the general.
Apparently many folk feel something more would have happened had the shutdown lasted longer. I’m not sure exactly what you expect would have happened, why you expect that, and how much more harm you would have been willing to inflict to achieve that.
But we differ as to our interpretations. Which is fine.
They could have gotten…I don’t know….literally anything they wanted. This post hoc justification about how it was worth the pain to give the Dems a chance to grandstand for a month is absurd. They shut down the government with clearly defined demands. They harmed a large number of people by doing so. They achieved nothing tangible from it. And sure, my friends know now that republicans are killing the aca…but they also know that democrats are willing to endanger their livelihoods and food security so they can have a bigger audience. I don’t think that will help democrats as much as you seem to.
I agree. The point I was trying to make is that the Democrats wouldn’t be beating themselves up now for what I don’t think is as big a political mistake as they’re making it to be.
Wow! It’s almost like majority rules or something.
OK. So kindly explain when and how it would have happened. On what specific date would the Repubs have said, “OK, we’ll extend the ACA subsidies. And we’ll throw in a pony as well.” Or what else do you believe they could have gotten?
No generalities, please. What makes the Senate, the House, and Trump get to that point. And exactly when does it occur? Please be sure to not confuse your hopes for how sane responsible people might act, with what you can accurately predict would have happened.
The Republicans have a majority which except for the Senate would have meant they could have passed this without any Dems. So please walk me through this:
The Republicans are to blame for the shutdown because they are expected to concede to the minority party and extend the ACA benefits.
However, the Democrats are not to blame for the shutdown. They could have conceded to the majority party but they are not expected to because …
Okay, I agree with all that except the last about “sane responsible people” if you are talking about the MAGAs.
No, since they didnt have a 60 vote majority, they were expected to sit down and actually, you know- negotiate. Which they refused to do.
Those would have been excellent questions…for the Dems, before the shutdown. There are, essentially, 3 options to explain the Dems behavior, each of which paints them in a bad light
- Republicans were never going to respond to the shutdown. The Democrats severely miscalculated, and thought they would. The Democrats are incompetent, and the shutdown never should have happened.
- The Republicans would have begun to move when air travel and the general American economy were effected. The democrats caved.
- The democrats knew from the start that the Republicans wouldn’t move, and shut the government down anyway. They are sociopaths who are willing to harm their constituents so they can get some time in the spotlight, and maybe at some point in the future they’ll get a few votes for it. Hopefully it’s more than they lose from people blaming them for inflicting the longest shutdown in history with seemingly no plan. This is also the least likely option IMO - the dems could have gracefully climbed down when the Republicans first threatened SNAP. That would have made some sense. Instead they continued for seemingly no reason and no gain.
Likely. But the reason is that they knew the GOP was trying to quietly cancel the ACA, and they needed the American voters to know that the MAGAs were trying that crap. There was a reasonable chance the GOP would negotiate some sort of deal, rather than just have the GOP dig it’s heels in and refuse to even negotiate.
Then why extend it this far? Why the longest shutdown in history? They could have ended the shutdown at any time for the same “concessions” they gained. They could have climbed down based on how heartless Republicans were going to starve children by unnecessarily cutting SNAP, and that was unthinkable. Why now, for no gain and with no cover?
Nothing & Never! Which it was a dumbass thing for the D-Senators to do. Trump got all of the benefits and no consequences from the shutdown.
Republicans have been trying to kill ACA since before it was passed. Nothing quiet about it - they’re proud of it.
You don’t understand the logic here. The Republicans had to concede because they are evil horrible people that want every poor person to die in the street like the animals they are. Democrats should never concede because they are the White Knights and everything good that happens in the United States is due to them and them only.
Hence the double-standard.
I’m confused. Isn’t this a slightly different position from your previous:
Sorry I was unclear. What I was suggesting is that when people predict what they think the Repubs would do, they oughtn’t base their opinions on what sane responsible people would do. The Dems are clearly not dealing with sane responsible people.
I am hopeful for some effective messaging over the upcoming months, and hoping it bears fruit next November. I do not see how the Dems’ actions these past 2 months have harmed their prospects. It will be interesting to see how and how much public opinion shifts. (I’m tempted to start a thread on how fucking sick and tired I am with opinion polls on just about every freaking issue!)
Possibly it was dumb for the Sens to get into the shutdown. But I think that is a different issue than how and when they ought to have gotten out of it.
You should start a poll on that.
Yeah. Ha ha. I just wondering why folk who supposedly supported the Dems during the shutdown would shift their views. It is easy to express opinions to pollsters.