Do they? I thought they just refused to discuss the issue.
Mostly, but not entirely of course.
The latest vote lost by 4 votes and not the Republicans are considering changing the filibuster rules to get the shutdown stopped.
Here.
Interesting take on the issue from NBC:
“Oh? When did the Democrats win a majority in Congress?”
Fair play. The idea that an opposition party can filibuster a budget is extremely stupid.
While I realize it wont happen it would be nice if the subsequent result is that the higher health insurance costs due to losing the subsidy is entirely on the gop in the minds of voters.
Adam Kinzinger has questions:
Stranger
Well, yeah. It’s an obvious fact, so that’s why it’s succinct. You’d need more words to respond because words are what it takes to spin, contort and twist facts to suit a narrative. The only one they’ve got is this one:
I mean, that’s pretty much the Democrats’ entire defense. They vote against a clean CR, then say “sorry I have to hurt you like that. Republicans won’t negotiate so they’re making us do this.” There’s nothing wrong with the CR as-is, so by any objective measure, it should pass. And there’s nothing in the CR that prevents healthcare subsidies from being passed in a separate bill. So why vote against the CR? Because as said in another thread on this:
That’s the real reason. The whole point isn’t to get healthcare. It’s to make the Republicans concede something, anything, to the minority party. That’s the actual goal. If healthcare were already passed, then the shutdown would’ve just been about something else. Some veterans funding. Some DOGE reversal. Whatever.
And if the point of the shutdown is to assert minority power, then nobody can plausibly suggest that the majority party is the cause of it. The only possible retort is the above “they made me do it,” which an honest person ought to reject immediately.
We can go ‘round and ‘round about the merits of the shutdown, but it’s intellectually dishonest, and reflective of a partisan mindset, to deny that the Democrats are the ones doing the shuttering.
Starting up another workweek - without getting paid - I find myself wondering how the Repubs are selling the fact that they are remaining out of session? Is the message that the Dems in Congress are forcing the continued shutdown effective among their base?
I’m fortunate to be nearing retirement, with no debt, no kids at home, and decent savings/investments. But 2.9 million civilian employees means A LOT of folk less well off that I are not getting paid.
Setting aside the pejorative statements, your continued insistence that it is Democrats who are alone responsible for the government shutdown, predicated on the claim that they should just concede any issue and pass the ‘clean CR’ that the House of Representatives (which has been held out of session for a month by House Speaker Mike Johnson specifically to prevent any further discussion or possibility of compromise) passed, ignores the fact that it is the responsibility of the entire Senate to come to an agreement with sufficient support to garner the required number of votes. That the GOP majority is not large enough to obtain 60 votes (or even the votes of all Senate Republicans) indicates that they should sit down and discuss a compromise with a caucus of minority party members. That they have steadfastly refused to do so bears them it least equal if not much greater responsibility for this shutdown.
It seems clear that you have a partisan desire to blame this on Democrats for not just rolling over and conceding whatever Republicans (who are in utter thrall of Trump) demand but they clearly see their duty to protect the ability of tens of millions of people to have access to (barely) affordable insurance, and as much as you disdain that just a pointless stalking horse, it is an issue that is critical to those people for whom insurance will be unaffordable and that they would be at risk of not being able to afford needed healthcare. Regardless, if Republicans want the votes, it is their obligation to sit down and negotiate for something even if they won’t bend on this issue, and the utter refusal to do so (and in the case of the House, procedural obstructionism from the highest level) is evidence of their perfidy and indifference, notwithstanding of how this shutdown is being used to try to lay off (not just furlough) federal workers and permanently eliminate critical jobs and funding outside of the aegis of Congress.
Stranger
That’s the same logic as claiming that the defending nation is the cause of a war, because if they’d just immediately surrendered to their conquerors there’d have been no war.
The issue Stranger really comes down to this: is the fight for the continued ACA subsidies worth this shutdown? If so, then the Dems should be getting that message out.
Well, obviously you can disagree, but I think the more honest answer is that both sides have calculated that a shutdown is in their best interest, for now. Either side has the ability to end it (Democrats by voting for the CR and Republicans by changing the fillibuster rules). Neither believes that cost is worth it, yet.
The calculus isn’t just about asserting minority power. It is about realizing that if the majority allow minority power (by continuing to allow filibustering of budget bills) then the logical result of that is that the majority has to negotiate with the minority. If the majority refuses to negotiate, then the blame is at least partially on their shoulders.
I think polling pretty much shows this. GOP voters think Democrats are to blame (by about 85-15% margins) and Democrats think the GOP is to blame (by same margins). Independents assign about 15% of the blame to both parties, and the rest split more like 45-35% blaming the GOP. Some of which is likely just that right now independents are tilted towards the Democrats by about that same 10% margin.
You can see the plan clearly by looking at the plan to discontinue SNAP payments. The USDA absolutely has the ability to make those payments, as they have in previous shutdowns. They have chosen not to.
After reading @Jas09 post, I’m thinking whether intended or not, this shutdown is really a fight for 2026 mid-terms. Who will put out the best message. Right now the Pubs have it with how the Democrats have shut down the government, they are the reason you are not getting SNAP, etc. How can (or rather, Will) the Dems counter in a way that resonates with the voters that no, it really is the Republicans’ fault?
The Achilles’ heel of Democrats; their complete inability to tell American voters what they are doing for them and being taken as sincere even when it does legitimately benefit the public.
Stranger
Absolutely. I hated Biden so much I wouldn’t piss on him if he were on fire so Mrs Cad would explain to me how what he was doing was a good thing and she got the message out better than any of his press secretaries or him himself.
Still didn’t convince me however.
Well, depending on how you read the polling tea leaves, they already have. As I said independents seem to be blaming the GOP more, and nobody is losing anybody in their base. Some polling indicates the Democrats are doing better with their base by holding out, and the GOP a bit worse (there are plenty of GOP voters on SNAP as well, particularly newer swingier ones).
As we saw during Trump’s first term, Democratic candidates do better when he is in office, and particularly when he is doing shit that pisses Democratic voters off. Shutting down SNAP and jacking up health insurance prices are right at the top of the list of things that motivate Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters.
I think there is a chance that the outcomes in NYC and VA Governor might cause some reflection.
Every time I’ve heard a democrat speak on this they’ve either mentioned rising healthcare costs or trump and mike johnson not working with them.
The Trump administration is on record as saying that they will figure out ways to continue to fund the things they care about (like the military), and will not fund things they consider to be “Democrat [sic] priorities.” This apparently incudes SNAP benefits, along with health insurance subsidies, of course.
But there a lot of lower-income Republicans who benefit from these programs as well. And when they are cut, I keep hoping that it will dawn on them who is pushing for these programs that benefit them.
That’s because they continue to be alone responsible for the shutdown. I’ll say it as many times as I have to.
No, not “any issue.” You put those words in my mouth. They should concede this issue, on account of there not actually being any issue. There’s nothing in the CR to object to. The healthcare issue is, I repeat, rooted in the Inflation Reduction Act, not the CR. There is no reasonable justification for “We want healthcare subsidies, so until we get those, Chessic Sense, Dinsdale, all our soldiers and air traffic controllers cannot work/be paid for work.” What do air traffic controller salaries have to do with healthcare? Nothing. But what do they have to do with partisan minority power? Everything.
No, it’s the responsibility of the entire Senate to come to an agreement that should garner sufficient support. That’s the CR. That’s the exact same bill that Democrats passed, what, 13 times under Biden, and countless times before that? That’s what you’re supposed to do. There’s no reason to not pass it…unless you really want a shutdown to “stand up” to your political rivals. And that’s what’s really happening here. They don’t object to the CR on its merits, yet they vote against it. That’s partisan hackery.
If Republicans wanted a trillion dollars for the ballroom and to establish a Department of Political Police, then you wouldn’t hear me saying this. You’d see me saying “filibuster that awful bill. Do what’s right.” But that’s not happening here. What’s happened is the offer on the table is a clean CR. Not a “ ‘clean CR’ ” but simply a clean CR. There’s no reason to vote against that, no matter what other pet project you’re advocating for.
No, I have an objective desire to blame this on the party causing it. That’s Democrats. If you question who’s partisan here, look to our Canadian OP for guidance.
It’s very simple. The party that votes against a clean CR is the party shutting down the government. It’s an easy rule to understand and apply for all time, backward and forward in time.
Anyway, I trust everyone here is in support of Sen. Van Hollen’s True Shutdown Fairness Act (.pdf)?
Yeah that’s probably been the biggest messaging wingor the dems. People don’t pay much attention to what any democrats say no matter what, but Trump is getting a lot of eyeballs on him basically saying any pain that occurs as a result of the shutdown is a personal choice made by him.
If he stuck with a more conventional playbook, the gop might have been able to keep the focus on the dem filibuster as the cause. But Trump’s ego and ambition doesn’t allow him to go that route as it would mean acknowledging that someone else has power over him.