# Why are doctors and lawyers still seen at the top of the occupation prestige rankings? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837 "2013-09-02T22:52:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/21 "2013-09-03T07:29:31Z")
My point is that in terms of average Joe and how he is going to see lawyers and other professionals, every medium (and up) city is going to have a substantial - not majority, far from it, but substantial - bunch of top lawyers earning big money (mid to upper six or even into seven figures). That is going to create a certain impression. And such people are going to be perceived _as lawyers_: if you are introduced to one they are going to say they are a lawyer, if their name is in the paper they are going to be described as a lawyer. Contrastingly, outside certain highly rarified and unrepresentative locations like Silicon Valley, most medium (and up) cities are not going to have a bunch of professionals (such as IT professionals) earning that sort of money. And if someone is an IT professional earning that sort of money it’s probably because that person has crossed the line into business owner/entrepreneur, and that is how they will be described and perceived. I’m not, you understand, saying that lawyer _should_ have such prestige as they may have, but I think it might well be how they get the prestige they get. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/22 "2013-09-03T08:40:21Z")
Let’s look at what the actual average incomes are for the highest paid careers in the U.S.: Doctors and surgeons: $168,650-$234,950 Orthodontists and dentists: $161,750-$204,670 Chief Executive Officers: $176,550 Petroleum engineers: $138,980 Lawyers: $130,490 Architectural and engineering managers: $129,350 Natural science managers: $128,230 Marketing managers: $126,190 Computer and information systems managers: $125,660 Industrial-organizational psychologists: $124,160 Financial managers: $120,450 Airline pilots, co-pilots, and flight engineers: $118,070 Sales managers: $116,860 Air traffic controllers: $114,460 Pharmacists: $112,160 That comes from this website: > **[What To Study: The Highest Paying Careers (Slideshow)](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-15-highest-paying-careers_n_1652553)** > > What To Study: The Highest Paying Careers (Slideshow) They list a range for doctors and dentists because it matters what specialty they are. Note that there isn’t really a huge difference among these jobs. If you can finish your degree, get hired, and stay working in these careers, you’ll be doing all right. The best paying jobs are ones where you don’t have to become a manager to make this much money. This is why being a doctor or a dentist (or a lawyer if you can get a job) is actually a pretty good career. It’s not necessary to ever go into management to do well. I guess going into management for a doctor would be becoming the head of the hospital or the hospital chain or a medical insurance firm. I guess going into management for a lawyer would be being a partner in a huge law firm where one just manages and doesn’t do law work anymore. For most jobs like the ones above, to really do well it’s necessary to go into management. It’s certainly not true that average IT people do that well. If you get a computer science degree and find a job, you probably won’t make it into this range of salaries unless you either become a manager at a big company or start your own company which does well over the long term. I think it’s unrealistic to list CEO as a job category. Many people get their M.B.A.'s and go into business. Few of them end up as the CEO of a big corporation. Mostly they end up as a mid-level manager at a moderately large company and do no better on average than the jobs listed above. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/23 "2013-09-03T09:23:35Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > **nearwildheaven** Why aren’t there investment bankers over the age of 35? Is it burnout or what? I don’t know that is necessarily true. It’s a career that skews young because they tend to hire students right out of college and work them 100 hours a week. But usually after a few years, you either burn out, made enough money to do what you want to do or have settled into it as a career. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > a) Many of others to some degree. See the number of lawyers today that can’t find a job at all let alone a high-paying one. You would be better off being a Java consultant even if you aren’t especially good. There are solid skills in other fields that can always be sold consistently. And yet I never seem to meet a poor lawyer. Solid skills and job prospects are not the same thing as prestige. Being a Broadway singer is prestigious but there aren’t a lot of transferable skills or jobs in that field. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > b) Sales always pissed me off because that is the true route to lots of money and a decent lifestyle. I work with them in the pharmaceutical industry now and a job requirement is a gym membership and closet full of pumps plus plenty of smarts. Most of them burn out early and the women get discarded after they age out unless they make it into one of the madam positions for new recruits. It a good life while it lasts but that usually isn’t more than a few years. A few of them, usually men, do quite well over their lifetime however. High income isn’t the same thing as prestige either. Salespeople are often looked at as vapid charlatans and scam artists looking to chase a buck. > [@Shagnasty](#): > > c) This one gets to the heart of my question - Good doctors and lawyers are as nerdy in their range of knowledge as any other profession. Knowing how to build a successful e-commerce site from the ground up is considered admirable but not especially sexy while knowing how to handle corporate merger proceedings is. Why is that? You were an engineer yourself? Why isn’t being a petroleum engineer or even a CPA as prestigious in popular thought if those positions pay more and offer a better overall lifestyle than many other jobs. Doctors and lawyers are “people jobs”. The perception is that a good doctor is helping sick people. A good lawyer is convincing a court or a judge to their point of view or negotiating with an equally competent counterpart. Engineers and CPAs OTOH are viewed as number crunchers and bean counters. Corporate lawyers (like the ones who handle M&A stuff) are also viewed as being very close to wealth and power. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/24 "2013-09-03T10:36:32Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > And yet I never seem to meet a poor lawyer. How do you tend to meet lawyers though? Wouldn’t this be self selecting? Though what you say certainly ties in with what I said above about perception. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/25 "2013-09-03T10:57:05Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > This is why being a doctor or a dentist (or a lawyer if you can get a job) is actually a pretty good career. It’s not necessary to ever go into management to do well. I guess going into management for a doctor would be becoming the head of the hospital or the hospital chain or a medical insurance firm. I guess going into management for a lawyer would be being a partner in a huge law firm where one just manages and doesn’t do law work anymore. > > For most jobs like the ones above, to really do well it’s necessary to go into management. For doctors and lawyers, they have the ability to own their own practice or be co-owners of a practice with other partners. So can engineers and CPAs. A marketing manager or air traffic controller typically doesn’t. Law partners are still required to bring in clients and bill hours. When people talk about professional prestige, they are typically talking about the upper potential for those fields. Not the statistical mean income. For IT, they are thinking of Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg, not Peter and Michael Bolton from Office Space For lawyers they are imagining some high powered TV lawyer in a $3000 suit or maybe a idealistic crusading DA, not Mitch the real estate attorney from Old School. Finance people think they will be Gordon Gecko or Warren Buffet, not one of the cold-calling meatheads from Boiler Room. And I don’t think any med school grad aspires to be JD from Scrubs. And what I think is interesting is that even with those highest salaries, it would be extremely difficult to buy a condo and raise a family in Manhattan in any way that one might consider “prestigious”. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Hell, I’m a college drop-out who was working on a history degree. That’s about as useless a degree as you can have. > > But my last job before I retired? The guy who was my assistant had a law degree. > > Degrees only mean something for about the first two years after you leave college. After that, you’re being judged by your job performance and nobody cares what you did in college. That’s just something college dropouts and failed lawyers say.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/26 "2013-09-03T11:37:59Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > So you can get almost as well paid as a medium paid partner in a city law firm in Brisbane, centre of the legal universe (snerk), as you can get being one of the top paid engineers in the top three richest software companies in the centre of the IT world? > > I think you make my point for me. At the partner level, your salary is made of of corporate profits as well. At these levels - this is just salary without stock options, grants or bonuses, which will be the biggest part of your yearly income in a year. Yes, software architects and engineers at the top of their fields working for top companies can pull in $1M a year. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/27 "2013-09-03T13:22:11Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > At the partner level, your salary is made of of corporate profits as well. At these levels - this is just salary without stock options, grants or bonuses, which will be the biggest part of your yearly income in a year. Yes, software architects and engineers at the top of their fields working for top companies can pull in $1M a year. Sure at partner level your income is not just from your own efforts. But this thread is about why law is _perceived_ to be prestigious. Partners in law firms are still _perceived_ as being lawyers because they are typically still “on the tools”. Owners of IT companies are perceived as entrepreneurs. And as I said above, yes, sure software architects and engineers at the top of their field who are working for top companies might be pulling down $1M a year (though **Do Not Taunt’s** cite gives no support to that contention) but such people are few and far between . However, what is a your average successful 20 year experienced software architect or engineer working in your average middle American city firm pulling down? $150k? _They_ are what people base their perception on. Not the tiny percentage of architects or engineers who hit the biggest of bigtime. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/28 "2013-09-03T15:30:37Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Sure at partner level your income is not just from your own efforts. But this thread is about why law is _perceived_ to be prestigious. Partners in law firms are still _perceived_ as being lawyers because they are typically still “on the tools”. Owners of IT companies are perceived as entrepreneurs. > > And as I said above, yes, sure software architects and engineers at the top of their field who are working for top companies might be pulling down $1M a year (though **Do Not Taunt’s** cite gives no support to that contention) but such people are few and far between . However, what is a your average successful 20 year experienced software architect or engineer working in your average middle American city firm pulling down? $150k? _They_ are what people base their perception on. Not the tiny percentage of architects or engineers who hit the biggest of bigtime. But those software engineers and architects aren’t enteprenuers either (or not anymore, although sometimes they started that way) - they are employees - like Mark Russinovich or consultants (which, frankly, is what attorneys are). And yes, they are few and far between (though you might be surprised, because I know more than one), but so are million dollar law partners. Which isn’t to say I don’t completely agree about the perception - the perception is that all lawyers are partners at multi million dollar firms, and all software architects are some version of sweatshop coders. But the truth is that many lawyers scrape together a modest living as an associate or in solo practice, and there are a few software architects pulling seven figures after their options and bonuses. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/29 "2013-09-03T15:44:09Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Pharmacists: $112,160 That’s only if you can get a job. The field is oversaturated for the first time in recorded history, and most places are only hiring new graduates who have done residencies or fellowships (i.e. a way to get a pharmacist for a year or two at half-salary). I’m still licensed, but I walked away from that last year and have no desire to go back. It doesn’t help that this degree prevents me from getting a job doing anything else. p.s. My sister’s BFF has a law degree, but for many years, she has worked in an unrelated field and doesn’t even have her law license any more. She found the theory interesting, but didn’t care for the practice. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/30 "2013-09-03T16:17:21Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > It can be a very decent salary. > > [Senior Software Engineer](http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Senior-Software-Engineer-Salaries-E9079_D_KO7,31.htm) at Google - $484k > [Partner Architect](http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Microsoft-Partner-Architect-Seattle-Salaries-EJI_IE1651.0,9_KO10,27_IL.28,35_IM781.htm) at Microsoft - $533k > [Senior Software Engineer](http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Apple-Senior-Software-Engineer-Cupertino-Salaries-EJI_IE1138.0,5_KO6,30_IL.31,40_IC1147422.htm) at Apple - $420k > > These are jobs that are going to take a couple decades to get to, and of course, not everyone who graduates with a Computer Science degree is going to get there. But I don’t think it’s true that salaries for software developers really top out all that fast. Are those guys actually going to be slinging much code, though? Usually when you get something like “lead” or “senior” added to your job description, you’re now a manager supervising a group of people who do the thing you used to do. IME, what makes “the professions” unique is that you can get into those high dollar salary ranges while still actually working in the trenches. You can also move up to something like a hospital administrator or a senior partner where you’re supervising groups of doctors or lawyers and make really silly huge amounts of money, but you an also move pretty high up the salary scale simply by being a good practicing doctor or attorney. Are there really any programmers out there who are making into the high six figures simply by virtue of their skill as a programmer? My impression is no. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/31 "2013-09-03T17:20:38Z")
Doctors diagnose and treat to keep people alive. Lawyers build the structures and processes that keep society alive. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/32 "2013-09-03T17:42:14Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I suppose the answer is in what professions do people earn more and require more education than lawyers and doctors that aren’t a) highly speculative b) sales driven or c) viewed as an esoteric pastime for socially awkward nerds? The interesting thing, though, is that the most successful private attorneys do lots of sales. Most of your business is bringing clients in the door. I mean real attorneys at real, run of the mill law firms… not the shite you see on TV. I practice in a large county in NoVA, but the community is very insular and old school. My husband hung out his shingle, so to speak. He is an excellent small businessman, and spends a good deal of his time focusing on this aspect of having his own law firm. He approached advertising from a new perspective (i.e., the internet - how avante garde), and really changed how a lot of folks advertised. Because they literally couldn’t compete. He is very successful, but most of this is because of his business savvy, rather than his orating skills. As a public defender, I don’t need to advertise. 😉 To answer the question though, being a practicing lawyer is being a part of white-collar profession; with a long and rich history. There is prestige in that (even if it is mostly self-congratulatory), regardless of how much money you are making. And the market wasn’t quite so bad when I went to law school in 2001. But I am lucky that I live in a state that cares about indigent defense. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/33 "2013-09-03T18:10:02Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > p.s. My sister’s BFF has a law degree, but for many years, she has worked in an unrelated field and doesn’t even have her law license any more. She found the theory interesting, but didn’t care for the practice. I do wonder how many people earn law degrees, and wind up not practicing law (at least, not in the long term). Out of my circle of close friends in college (which was also my D&D gaming group), three of them went on to law school, earned their degrees, and passed the bar. Of the three, none practiced law for more than four or five years: - One (the one who practiced for five years) went back to school to get his PhD in his undergrad field (microbiology) – he’s now working as a researcher - One is getting his PhD now, in order to teach at a law school - The third left law, tended bar for a while, and is now in IT. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/34 "2013-09-03T21:40:44Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > That’s only if you can get a job. The field is oversaturated for the first time in recorded history, and most places are only hiring new graduates who have done residencies or fellowships (i.e. a way to get a pharmacist for a year or two at half-salary). > > I’m still licensed, but I walked away from that last year and have no desire to go back. It doesn’t help that this degree prevents me from getting a job doing anything else. > > p.s. My sister’s BFF has a law degree, but for many years, she has worked in an unrelated field and doesn’t even have her law license any more. She found the theory interesting, but didn’t care for the practice. My dad is a pharmacist and despite him being in poor health and close to retirement he would get various job offers all the time. Pharmacy is supposed to be a field experiencing a shortage over the next 10 years. Maybe this is just a temporary trend due to the recession. > **[Search content | AACP](https://www.aacp.org/search/content)** But that is the problem with jobs like that (and nursing). There is a shortage so they increase workloads and stress on the remaining workers, causing more people to quit or retire and making the shortage worse. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/35 "2013-09-03T23:16:50Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I do wonder how many people earn law degrees, and wind up not practicing law (at least, not in the long term). > > Out of my circle of close friends in college (which was also my D&D gaming group), three of them went on to law school, earned their degrees, and passed the bar. Of the three, none practiced law for more than four or five years: > > - One (the one who practiced for five years) went back to school to get his PhD in his undergrad field (microbiology) – he’s now working as a researcher > - One is getting his PhD now, in order to teach at a law school > - The third left law, tended bar for a while, and is now in IT. 😃 I know two pharmacists who went to law school. One works as a lawyer (at a health insurance company, no less!) but has kept her pharmacist’s license and does some relief work. The other one realized halfway through his L3 year that he really didn’t want to be an attorney after all, but he did graduate and take the bar exam, and last I heard was working at Wal-Mart. THAT Wal-Mart knows not to screw HIM out of pay or benefits. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/36 "2013-09-03T23:18:01Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > My dad is a pharmacist and despite him being in poor health and close to retirement he would get various job offers all the time. Pharmacy is supposed to be a field experiencing a shortage over the next 10 years. Maybe this is just a temporary trend due to the recession. > > [Search content | AACP](http://www.aacp.org/resources/student/pharmacyforyou/Pages/joboutlook.aspx#shortage) > > But that is the problem with jobs like that (and nursing). There is a shortage so they increase workloads and stress on the remaining workers, causing more people to quit or retire and making the shortage worse. I get postcards in the mail all the time advertising jobs here and there. They’re usually from Wal-Mart. A while back, I met someone whose pharmacist father had died many years earlier, and he lived in that house now and STILL got mail for him, which included ads for job openings. :smack: I recently found out that a pharmacist I used to work with whose license was revoked (for theft, no less) is now working at a steakhouse. I wonder how she managed that, because if you Google her name, this pops up. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/37 "2013-09-03T23:53:21Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Doctors diagnose and treat to keep people alive. Lawyers build the structures and processes that keep society alive. True. I think they both are (or can be) noble professions that require lots of smarts, dedication and experience. However, you can make similar statements about several other professions that aren’t glamorized or idealized nearly so often. That is why I asked. It isn’t to disparage doctors or lawyers. It has been a long time since the typical practitioner of those professions enjoyed the benefits that are popularly perceived to be associated with them while some other professions have caught up with them or passed them by some measures. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/38 "2013-09-04T01:24:53Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Doctors diagnose and treat to keep people alive. Lawyers build the structures and processes that keep society alive. Agreed. The discussion above almost immediately drifted off into a focus on money but that is not what gives doctors and lawyers prestige. Money is secondary and almost a tawdry consideration. The reasons are complex but deep knowledge and intellect are part of the answer. Both professions deal with people in their most vulnerable moments and remain fiercely independent from outside pressures. In the 19th century, doctors, lawyers, teachers, scientists, and men of the cloth were all accorded a high social standing. But times and attitudes do change and the latter three have faded from public respect. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/39 "2013-09-04T01:30:48Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > In the 19th century, doctors, lawyers, teachers, scientists, and men of the cloth were all accorded a high social standing. But times and attitudes do change and the latter three have faded from public respect. “Physicians and lawyers are the confessors of this prosaic nineteenth century.” -Mary Elizabeth Braddon, _Lady Audley’s Secret_ (1862) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837/40 "2013-09-04T01:34:39Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Because a workplace drama about programmers and accountants would be pretty boring? “Norman! There’s a transposition error in the balance sheet!” “Hold that debit and get me the adding machine! STAT!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-doctors-and-lawyers-still-seen-at-the-top-of-the-occupation-prestige-rankings/667837.md?page=3)