# Why are fantasy novels always set in a medieval European setting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 24, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561 "2014-06-24T20:59:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Earth001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@Earth001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earth001)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/1 "2014-06-24T20:59:55Z")
This is something that I don’t really understand. As a fan of fantasy novels it seems that all the novels that I have read are stuck in a medieval European Fantasy setting. There are not that many fantasy works that have a native American setting, or a Chinese setting, or Arabian fantasy. I would like to know why is it that European Fantasy is so popular and why not the other cultures? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/2 "2014-06-24T21:25:56Z")
> [@Earth001](#): > > This is something that I don’t really understand. As a fan of fantasy novels it seems that all the novels that I have read are stuck in a medieval European Fantasy setting. There are not that many fantasy works that have a native American setting, or a Chinese setting, or Arabian fantasy. I would like to know why is it that European Fantasy is so popular and why not the other cultures? Power fantasy. Glory. Freedom. Free sex. Native-American fantasy: No one really fantasizes about sitting in a birch bark wigwam, even as Chief. It’s just not glorious enough. Too much responsible communing with nature. That’s too grown-up! Arabian fantasy probably was as prominent in pop culture as medieval-Europe fantasy, for several decades in the early 20th century. Check out any comprehensive list of Hollywood B-movies and you’ll find lots of guys in turbans and gals in diaphanous bikinis. But as the geo-political realities heated up, particularly beginning in the 1960s (Arab-Israeli war, etc), Arabian fantasies kind of went away. Admittedly, it would be pretty glorious to be the Son of Heaven (Emperor of China). But it’s not really familiar enough, and also the Emperor didn’t have the freedom that we associate with riding around in armor and bashing people’s heads in and being called “your Grace” and tossing back goblets of wine and eating roasted turkey legs with your bare hands. Oh, and droit du seigneur. That’s important, too. You don’t get that stuff with China-set fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/3 "2014-06-24T21:29:04Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Admittedly, it would be pretty glorious to be the Son of Heaven (Emperor of China). But it’s not really familiar enough, and also the Emperor didn’t have the freedom that we associate with riding around in armor and bashing people’s heads in and being called “your Grace” and tossing back goblets of wine and eating roasted turkey legs with your bare hands. Oh, and droit du seigneur. That’s important, too. You don’t get that stuff with China-set fantasy. The primary reason you have more European-set fantasy than Chinese fantasy isn’t droit du seigneur. It’s that Chinese people **aren’t white** , and the Western audience for fantasy has a strong preference for white people in their stories. I could cite a very, very depressing list of examples if need be. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/4 "2014-06-24T21:49:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The primary reason you have more European-set fantasy than Chinese fantasy isn’t droit du seigneur. It’s that Chinese people **aren’t white** , and the Western audience for fantasy has a strong preference for white people in their stories. I could cite a very, very depressing list of examples if need be. I’d like to see a cite. My expectation is that the Western audience for fantasy has a strong preference for Western culture. In general, audiences prefer stories in a mostly familiar setting with only a few new elements. Fantasy stories tend to have fantastic elements, which leaves less scope for introducing unfamiliar cultures. That is, Western audiences prefer stories with a familiar Western culture and fantasy elements over stories with an unfamiliar culture and fantasy elements. There’s too much new stuff for them to grok the latter. If my expectation is correct, stories about white people in a Chinese cultural setting will be less popular than stories about Asian people in a Western cultural setting. Race does not make a story–cultural settings do. (On preview, I think I may be misinterpreting you. Sorry, if I am.) ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/5 "2014-06-24T21:50:49Z")
Well Chinese people have made more than a couple of fantasy works that take place in a Chinese historical setting. I don’t find it all that remarkable that people of European descent would be more focused on European history. I think a far more interesting question is why the Medieval Era has so much allure. Why don’t we see more fantasy works set in the Bronze Age or the Stone Age or in a world where people possess technology roughly analogous to 18th Century Britain instead of 14th Century Britain? There are fantasy works set in other historical periods, but Medieval is by far the most common setting. I think part of the answer might be that the Middle Ages in Europe were followed by the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. The Middle Ages are sort of viewed as the last era before people started to unravel the scientific mysteries of the universe and usher in the Modern Age. Therefore Medieval settings seem the appropriate place for stories about magic and fantastic beasts. ---
**Author:** ![KermitTheFrig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/47e85d/32.png) [@KermitTheFrig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KermitTheFrig)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/6 "2014-06-24T22:13:12Z")
Because “The Hobbit”/“The Lord of the Rings” and the Arthurian legend were huge influences on fantasy fiction and they are medieval-Europeanish. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/7 "2014-06-24T22:33:42Z")
> [@KermitTheFrig](#): > > Because “The Hobbit”/“The Lord of the Rings” and the Arthurian legend were huge influences on fantasy fiction and they are medieval-Europeanish. I’d add fairy tales (e.g. Grimm’s). And, LOTR is less medieval-European than some fantasies. No feudal system, no knights in armor, etc. Given Tolkien’s background, it’s no surprise that Middle Earth has a somewhat European feel, but to me it’s more timeless-European than medieval-European. Personally, I prefer fantasy settings that aren’t really a copy of _any_ existing historical culture, but rather an original creation. Previous threads: [Thoughts on the medieval setting common to fantasy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=530719) [Fantasy novels with an Asian setting or Asian theme](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=566585) [World building fantasy not inspired by medieval Europe?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694195) [Are there any good fantasy novels set in the USA?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=516025) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/8 "2014-06-24T22:41:23Z")
Among several works set in European-style settings, Guy Gavriel Kay has also written _[The Lions of al-Rassan](http://www.brightweavings.com/books/lions.htm)_, set in a Moorish Spain-style setting; _[The Sarantine Mosaic](http://www.brightweavings.com/books/sarantine.htm)_, set in a Byzantine millieu; and _[Under Heaven](http://www.brightweavings.com/books/underheaven.htm)_ and _[River of Stars](http://www.brightweavings.com/books/riverofstars.htm)_, set in a pseudo-China. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/9 "2014-06-24T23:18:24Z")
Well, they aren’t, though the medieval setting is much more common because that’s what authors know about (you’d be surprised how many fantasy authors have Medieval Studies degrees) and also what readers like reading. But you can find fantasy set in many other times and places. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/10 "2014-06-24T23:23:19Z")
I don’t read a lot of fantasy, but I don’t think they are, particularly. They’re set in \*fantastical \*settings. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/11 "2014-06-24T23:46:15Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > I think part of the answer might be that the Middle Ages in Europe were followed by the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. The Middle Ages are sort of viewed as the last era before people started to unravel the scientific mysteries of the universe and usher in the Modern Age. Therefore Medieval settings seem the appropriate place for stories about magic and fantastic beasts. I think with that too, it’s the last era before gunpowder weapons. Fighting a dragon or ogre with sword and lance is seen as more heroic and dashing than shooting it with a musket. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/12 "2014-06-25T01:35:36Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Native-American fantasy: No one really fantasizes about sitting in a birch bark wigwam, even as Chief. It’s just not glorious enough. Too much responsible communing with nature. That’s too grown-up! That WOULD be a fantasy, however… ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/13 "2014-06-25T02:09:15Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I think with that too, it’s the last era before gunpowder weapons. Fighting a dragon or ogre with sword and lance is seen as more heroic and dashing than shooting it with a musket. There are more of this style coming out. [The Iron Elves series](http://www.amazon.com/Darkness-Forged-Fire-Book-Elves/dp/1416570527/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1403661938&sr=8-2&keywords=iron+elves) and the [Powder Mage books](http://www.amazon.com/Promise-Blood-Powder-Mage-Trilogy/dp/0316219045/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1403662002&sr=8-2&keywords=powder+mage) are set in worlds with magic, swords, archery and black-powder weapons existing side-by-side. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/14 "2014-06-25T02:40:15Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > There are more of this style coming out. [The Iron Elves series](http://www.amazon.com/Darkness-Forged-Fire-Book-Elves/dp/1416570527/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1403661938&sr=8-2&keywords=iron+elves) and the [Powder Mage books](http://www.amazon.com/Promise-Blood-Powder-Mage-Trilogy/dp/0316219045/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1403662002&sr=8-2&keywords=powder+mage) are set in worlds with magic, swords, archery and black-powder weapons existing side-by-side. Personally, I don’t like those sort of books. I’m old-fashioned when it comes to fantasy. No gunpowder. And I think the existence of magic would tend to hold down the development of science and gunpowder weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/15 "2014-06-25T05:52:11Z")
The Forgotten Realms setting, which boasts many novels and several popular video game series (_Baldur’s Gate_, _Neverwinter Nights_, and others) is kind of medieval European at first blush, but doesn’t really fit upon further scrutiny. The tech level ranges mostly from late bronze age to early Renaissance, but there are ways in which the societies of the setting differ vastly from medieval Europe. For one thing, religion plays a vastly different role in people’s lives, and there’s a sense of pluralism that allows dozens or even hundreds of religions to coexist with only sporadic violence (some of those religions are explicitly evil, after all). Women’s rights are more similar to those of a modern Western society than to what you’d have seen in medieval Europe. Technology doesn’t advance very quickly because the best and brightest mostly become clerics and wizards rather than doctors and engineers. Sure, there are castles and swords and stuff, but the _mindset_ of the people is very far from medieval Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Sasquatch\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@Sasquatch\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sasquatch_1)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/16 "2014-06-25T07:18:14Z")
It isn’t that strong in fantasy elements, but check out _ **Who Fears Death** _ by Nnedi Okorafor for an Africa based story. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/17 "2014-06-25T07:27:09Z")
I hate to say it, but it’s because most fantasy is imitative and not very good. They are pale copies of Tolkien. Urslula LeGuin’s Earthsea feels very different. She lived for a time in Indonesia as a child and there are clearly influences from that time in her work. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/18 "2014-06-25T07:56:21Z")
English speaking authors write of English-inspired eras. There are many authors of other cultures that write about their own myths and histories. But more recently this is no longer true, and there are a lot more deliberately cross-cultural influenced realms, as authors search for originality, for new myths to base their characters and creatures around, or for something that they just think is cool. ---
**Author:** ![danhanegan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb9ed0/32.png) [@danhanegan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danhanegan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/19 "2014-06-25T10:03:49Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I hate to say it, but it’s because most fantasy is imitative and not very good. They are pale copies of Tolkien. This. That said, there are authors who create other settings. My personal favorite fantasy novel is D’shai, by Joel Rosenberg. It’s set in a world strongly reminiscent of medieval Japan, though subtly different. There is one sequel, Hour of the Octopus. Lois McMaster Bujold has written a four book series called The Sharing Knife. The protagonist’s culture, the “lakewalkers”, seem to me to resemble native American tribes in some ways. There are undoubtedly other examples. But I don’t actually read a lot of fantasy, I prefer science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2014, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561/20 "2014-06-25T10:15:06Z")
I just realized that no one has mentioned Dune. So, Dune. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-fantasy-novels-always-set-in-a-medieval-european-setting/691561.md?page=2)