Why are front load washers so popular in The UK?

Factual Questions
21

Oh goody, how often will a thread come up about washing machines.
Here is my chance having spent years repairing the damn things as part of my work as a hospital tech.
We had all sorts of stuff from little table top things to enormous behemoths that sterilized and bleached as well weighing well over 3 tons apiece and ginormous tunnel washers 40 odd feet long.

Not one machine I ever came across had a system for holding doors closed using a vacuum.The misconception here is due to the fact that the rubber seal when compressed in place is designed to suck onto the mating surface but it is only atmospheric pressure doing it.
Every one of them had an electro-mechanical interlock to stop the door being opened to prevent flooding, but mainly a machine zipping round at around 1600 rpm will rip your arm off without even slightly slowing down.

Balancing a front loader is vital in high spin speed and large capacity machines, usually the drum is divided radially into 3 sections and the load is weighed and distributed accordingly.Trouble is, that even if each pocket has the same dry weight of articles inside it, differant fabrics hold differant amounts of water.
In some very expensive machines there is a small balancing pocket within each main pocket and as the machine wobbles water is injected into them to evenly distribute the weight.
A domestic machine that is capable of this in the UK will cost you around £1500-£2000 figure that into £/$ exchange rates.

Personal experience is that compared to top loaders ,front loaders are nothing like as reliable, the electronic modules are crap, the timers generally have a very sharply defined lifetimes and spares cost a fortune, the door seals are prone to leaking, the bearings are weak, the water level switches fail depressingly regularly, as do the drain valves and inlet valves but they do look nice in modern fitted kitchens!

Me ? I use a twin-tub cheap to buy run and easy to maintain .Yes you have to do a little manual shifting of washing from one section to anther but the work is done far faster.
Auto owners just switch them on and go out only to return home to a flood.

22

handy wrote:

and Ophilia wrote:

Don’t confuse the large capacity front loaders like you see in the US (particularly at landromats) with the small capacity front loaders in Europe. They are completly different animals.
Chef Troy writes:

I don’t believe you. We had a problem when we first went to the UK. We kept overloading the machine. Not only were our clothes not getting cleaned properly, the soap wasn’t even disolving completely. In both of our front loading washers in the UK, we could only wash four pair of jeans at one time. We can get more than twice that in our top loading US machine.

The RATED capacity of our UK front loader was less than half the capacity of our US top loader.

I was referring specifically to front loaders in Europe. The drum on my UK washer spun at 1800 RPM versus the 450 RPM of my US top loader. This was what was eating away the fibers of our clothes. BTW, my US top loader was a lot quieter than the UK front loaders. Both of our UK machines sounded like freight trains running throu the house and we could hear our neighbors’ machines going on their wash days!!!
ZenBeam wrote:

Apparently it can take that long if there’s no active release valve.

The release timer doesn’t even start until after the spin has stopped. The way it worked on our washer was the spinning stopped, a few seconds later you could hear an audible click but you still could not open the door. About two minutes later you could hear a second click at which point the door could be opened. Also, I just remembered… If you were waiting to get into the washer and you tried to open the door as soon as possible, there was still some vacuum left so it was a stiff pull. If you waited until later the door opened easily with no vacuum pulling.

There was a case in the UK where a small child was climbing on a counter top and put their foot down on the latch of the washer while it was at the end of the spin cycle. The safty latch failed and the door opened. The childs leg slipped into the washer causing quite a bit of damage. Fortunately the spin cycle was finished so it was coasting to a stop, but the force was great enough to break the child’s leg and mangle the bones pretty bad. Big lawsuit - big recall.
casdave wrote:

I agree with this, since in the three years we lived in the UK we had to call out washing machine repair people about five or six times. We used two different machines (different houses) and each was supposedly less than three years old. I’ve had my Maytag for 17 years (less the 3 years we lived in the UK) and never had a service call yet!!!

23

Americans like to add stuff when the washer is on & you can only do that with a top loader, right?

“‘How do you know I’m mad’ said Alice.
'You must be, ’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here.’”

24

No one has mentioned if British/Euro washers heat the water as well. I saw this on “The Secret Life of Machines”, a (really really cool) British TV show that TLC used to broadcast. I would assume its because even by the time automatic washers came out alot of British homes still didn’t have reliable running hot water?

I for one welcome our new insect overlords… - K. Brockman

25

Once a front loader starts the cycles the door is closed tight–at least it better be since the door is below the water line.
To quote Consumer Reports: In a top-loader, the clothes are circulated by an agitator, providing some advantages over front-loaders. They’re less expensive to buy, easier to load, often handle larger loads, have faster cycles, and you can add items mid-cycle. Price range: $300 to $700.
And this about front-loaders:…Older designs used to hold significantly less laundry, but American-made front-loaders are now comparable with top-loaders–14 pounds of laundry or more. Price range: American brands, $700 to $1,100; European brands, $1,000 or more.
I remember when I was a kid there were a few old leaky Norge front-loaders around, but their reputation was nothing short of horrible.
These days there are very good front-load models available from Frigidaire, General Electric and Maytag. The Miele import starts at $1,600.
Because front-loaders relieve electrical demand (in addition to saving water) some utilities, mostly in the West, are offering rebates of $40 to $300 to customers who buy the machines.

26

Never has so little, been known by so many, about so much.

Front Loaders have been commercially available in the U.S. for at LEAST two and a half years. Possibly longer, but I’ve only been an appliance salesman for a couple of years.

There are two readily available front load washing machines, that any appliance store worth even half of a damn should be able to show you or get for you. The first, as has already been mentioned, is the Maytag Neptune. A fine machine, designed with a slight tilt that gives you easier access to the drum. The second is produced by Frigidaire, but sold under the Frigidaire, Kenmore, GE brands.

I’m much more familiar with the Frigidaire, so I’ll mainly refer to it.

The capacity listed for the machine is 2.7 cubic feet in volume. For comparison, a typical Super Capacity Plus top load washer has a 3.2 cubic foot capacity.

Unlike the top loader, the front load machine has no agitator column. It will easily handle 12-16 towels, a king sized comforter, or a sleeping bag. If you really need to wash more than that, you’re pretty much out of luck anyway as a load of larger size will invariably unbalance the top load machine of any size.

The front loader is much more energy efficient. Your standard top loading machine will use between 38-44 gallons of water per load cycle. A front load machine uses on average 22 gallons. This projects out to a national average savings of $150 per year, for a typical (2.5 kid) family.

A second benefit is the electrical savings. The frigidaire machine for example, will use 422 kwh / year. A typical top loader uses right around 700 kwh / year.

During the spin cycle, ye olde average top loader will spin at around 4-500 rpms. The frigidaire spins at a rate of 800 rpms. The clothes you put into the machine come out more dry, as the spin forces more water out of them. The additional spin reported by the Milee, Asco, and Bosch machines are accurate. This in NO WAY damages your clothes. The water is already drained from the drum during the spin cycle, so the clothes are not being rubbed against each other, or experiencing any significant motion relative to the interior of the tub.

During the wash cycle, the water is held in not by a vacum, not by magnets, and not by the Invisible Pink Unicorn. There is a recessed glass window on the Frigidaire machine, complemented by a simple black rubber gasket. The gasket forms a water tight seal with the machines metal door, both on the Frigidaire and on the Maytag.

The reason the door cannot be opened immediately during the wash cycle is simply the need to drain the water out of the main wash tub, so that it doesn’t spill out all over your floor and you then sue the manufacturer or the hapless retailer who sold it to you.

Currently, the Frigidaire machine does allow you to add clothes during the wash cycle. You simply hit a button on the control panel and wait for a few seconds for the water to drain.

The reliablity of a front loader is currently just as good as any of the top load machines. The problem that front load manufacturers have to overcome is the negative baggage that the American public has left over from the old Gibson machines, which frankly sucked.

Finally, the cost issue. The Frigidaire machine is available in our area for $658 dollars. There is a $100 rebate from the local utility district on the purchase of a front load machine, as well as a $50 dollar rebate from the manufacturer. A borderline decent top loader (the cheapest machine that I would actually reccommend to a friend) can be had for $318.

I’ll address other questions/comments/smart remarks later, now I’ve got to go get dinner. :wink:

27

Top v. Front Loader: You can install a front-loading washing machine under something else, such as a kitchen counter. My impression is that houses are generally smaller in te UK than the US, so this is a big advantage.

Heating water: My washing machine runs at a significantly higher temperature than my hot water supply (max 90 deg. C), so it has to be able to heat the water.

28

High spin speeds = more energy efficient?

So the articles come out drier?
True but pointless if you can hang them out to dry it doesn’t matter that much how wet they are as natural drying will use less energy than a high speed spin.

I have seen a top loader that has a vertical drum supported by bearings at either side.It has a door in the side of the drum which is interlocked so that it stops as required in line with the lid.This machine takes up less room than virtually all automatics and is as energy efficient as any of them but the big plus is that it is more reliable.This type of machine is more popular on the continent than here in the UK.

29

JDeMobray wrote:

Following fact-fest deleted due to space and relevance limitations…

Thanks, for the ever-so-useful information about US front loading washing machines. However, the OP was about UK front loading machines which are very, very different. The drums are considerably smaller. The spin cycle is considerably faster. The stress on the fabric is considerably greater. The door, at least on one of the models I had, was held tight by a vacuum. The observed reliability on the two machines I had was horrible. COntrary to the way it is in the US, the cost for top loading washers in the UK seemed to be higher than the typical front loader, but I suspect this was due to the fact that the only top loaders I saw were imported from the US and were top of the line Maytags and the like.

We can continue to discuss the virtues and economics of US front loading washing machines, however realize that this is miles away from the original topic.

The main reason that most Brits use front loaders is availabillity. The reasons for the much higher percentage of front loaders are, I believe, space contraints, customer perception, energy and water efficiency, and cost - in that order. On the point about space, most UK refrigerators and freezers are also much smaller than the typical US appliances, for the same reason. The point about customer perception is that most people in the UK “seem to remember” problems with early top loaders that damaged clothing and had poor reliability. Interestingly, the customer perception in the US is exactly the opposite. People “seem to remember” that front loading washers were plagued with troubles…

I have no doubt that US front loading washers are more energy and water efficient than US top loaders. I have my doubts about the energy efficiency of the UK front loaders due to the increddible speed and torque those things generate and due to longer cycles. You don’t get 1800 RPM for free.

One other point. In the UK wash day was every day because the machines were so small and the cycles so long. In the US, wash day is once a week, with an occasional load in between because someone’s just gotta have that blouse they wore two days ago. My wife did all of the washing while we were in the UK (Hey, I never claimed to be the perfect hubby). It seemed like the only thing she ever complained about, the three years we lived there, was how she felt chained to the laundry. It was a big deal and affected our lifestyle more than it should have!

30

Since you all have had so much experience with FE loader washers, could you refute or confirm something?

I sew sometimes and like to wash the fabric before I sew it to get the shrinkage over with. When you wash long lengths of fabric in a toploader washer the darn thing will twist, knot and once I even had the material tear. I read on a sewing site that the front loader machines (american) didn’t twist material like that (something that also would affect the wear over time). What has been your experience? Do the FE loaders twist long stuff up less (like a sheet)?

31

[QUOTE]
casdave:
** High spin speeds = more energy efficient?

So the articles come out drier?
True but pointless if you can hang them out to dry it doesn’t matter that much how wet they…**/QUOTE]

That raises climate as an issue. It does rain more often in the UK. Shorter natural drying periods could be an answer.

BTW my wife thinks it is because Americans might mistake frontloaders for televisions. :wink:

picmr

32

This is absolutely an advantage of a front loader. things like sheets and blankets just don’t get twisted up in my experience.

Live a Lush Life
Da Chef

33

I wouldn’t say “useless” but you do need to run them for at least three hours to get your clothes dry enough to wear. Which is still faster than hanging them up to dry.

34

Having homes in both sides of the Atlantic, I have washers of both types. Front loading is definitely somewhat gentler on the clothes. I think the main reason for using this type in Europe is lack of space. (the same reason they use the “heat on demand” water heaters which do a lousy job of maintaining water temperature and which I hate because you cannot shower comfortably)

Consumer Reports has done some comparisons in the past about both types.

Vacuum? huh? This is nonsense! Anybody who has worked on these machines would know this. What would be the object anyway? Just try this: instead of detergent designed for a washing machine, use one that makes lots of suds. The water and detergent simply fall into the drum through an open tube and the suds will overflow out of the washer by this tube and create a big mess (I’ve seen it happen).

The rubber gasket creates a good seal with the door and they tend to stick but there is no vacuum. Also, after some time, the rubber starts to decompose and get tacky and then it really sticks.

35

Thankyou Sailor for confirming what I have been trying to put across about the ‘vacuum’ on front loader seals.

At least one poster seems to have totally ignored what I had earlier said despite the fact that I actually have spent a good few years repairing them and had posted to that effect.

The only other sealing mechanism I have ever seen ,apart from mechanical hand-lever compression, is an inflatable seal which looks vagually like a flattened inner tube.This is only used on large industrial machines as compressed air has to be supplied.These machines have air-operated brakes and air operated suspension (we are talking major stuff).

On a differant note, has anybody noticed how that liquid washing detergent is gumming up water pumps and the like.
Whenever I’ve had people tell me their machine woes I’ve recommended powder and everything is just fine again.
My theory is that since it is much more concentrated it is capable of eating into some plastics if it settles in a corner or kink it the pipe.

36

You got that right!! I work for a laundry appliance manufacturer, and the testers in our labs say the same thing – powder is definitely better.

37

Most houses in the United Kingdom don’t have a seperate laundry and have a washing machine installed in the kitchen. As others have mentioned before front loaders can be installed under benches and take up less room in what are often very small houses.

38

On the powder vs. liquid question:

I used to work in the outdoor sports industry. The manufacturers of Gore-Tex and other waterproof/breathable fabrics stressed to us that these fabrics should only be washed with powdered detergents. I don’t remember exactly what the reason was, but it had something to do with the surfactants in the liquid detergent messing with the coatings.

39

casdave writes:

I beg to differ. It is you who have completely ignored what I’ve said. First and foremost, I claimed that there was a vacuum because that’s what one of the repair men told me. Furthermore, he demonstrated it to me when he forced the door on our washer, he had to break the vacuum seal and you could hear the air rush in. This sound was not present when the door was opened under normal operating conditions. The presence of a vacuum was also demonstrated by the action of the seal when the machine was starting up. The seal, which was pressed against the window, ‘puffed’ up showing that there was a negative pressure being applied. This occured prior to any water entering the chamber. And just to lend a bit more evidence to the presence of a vacuum, when I tried to open the door as soon as the release mechanism allowed, the door was harder to open and the gasket clung tighter. If I waited several minutes more, the door opened easily.

Now I’m not saying, necessarily, that all front loading washers in the UK behave like this, but I’m 99.99% sure that this is the way ours operated.

40

Lets see if I can explain this.

You know those rubber sucker arrows? Well I assume you know why they stick.
Glaziers have a tool that works on the same principle, you push the sucker cups against the glass and it sticks ,held by atmospheric pressure.
In fact it sticks so well that the handle has a relief valve built into it that allows you to let go of the glass.A washing machine seal has a far greater area/volume than this tool and so the grip is much stronger.

A vacuum is not supplied to the seal of a washing machine as such, what happens is that the door is closed and latched by the user and the seal sticks in the same way.
Improvements have been made, and instead of swinging off the handle to get a good watertight seal, machines have a mechanism built into them that pulls the door closed more tightly, which is why you see the seal swell up.

When the machine is ready to be opened you will not be surprised to learn the there is a relief valve which is opened, this can be operated as part of the door handle or it can be electrically operated by an electromagnet.

If the latter is the case then when power is lost the is no way the user can open the door.

The fitting of a vacuum pump with the capabilities required would be expensive and that pump would have to run all the time the door needed to be sealed, as soon as the pump turned off air would quickly flow around the pumps internal mechanism.Proof that there is no vacuum pump is that the seal remain tight even after when power is lost during a wash cycle.

So there you go, that really is how they work. Unless of course…