# Why are humans such better swimmers than all our primate cousins? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 6, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520 "2013-08-06T19:41:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/41 "2013-08-08T13:55:37Z")
Are you talking about the body fat % of women or men? ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/42 "2013-08-08T14:30:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you talking about the body fat % of women or men? Fair enough. This [study](http://www.sportsci.org/news/compeat/fat.html) found averages of 12% in males and 15% in females, still a far cry from 4%. > [@](#): > > The findings: runners had lower body fat levels than swimmers (7% v 12% for male runners v swimmers, and 15% v 20% for females). Also interesting to note: > [@](#): > > Elite swimmers may be predisposed to have higher body fat levels because it is a help, or at least less of a disadvantage, to their swimming. Rounded shoulders and smooth curves may be more biomechanically sound than bony angles. Now, back to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/43 "2013-08-08T14:44:54Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Nope, you still missed it. Nope. The point is: you were wrong. Here’s what you said: > [@Sparky812](#): > > That’s because fat floats ≠ good swimmer, fat floats = more buoyancy which makes swimming a whole lot easier. > If you don’t believe me, look at the body fat of whales, walruses, seals, manatees, sea lions, etc. You attempted to assert that because buoyancy makes swimming easier, humans having more body fat makes them better swimmers than other apes. As your evidence, you offered comparison to the body fat of other aquatic animals. Other aquatic animals have body fat for _entirely different reasons than buoyancy_. For most aquatic animals, increased buoyancy is actually detrimental. And _still_ has absolutely nothing to do with humans and/or apes swimming. Unless you are asserting that humans are aquatic animals, too? Also absurd. Furthermore, your study does not support the contention that more fat = more buoyancy = better swimmer. All it says is that competitive swimmers have higher body fat than runners. It guesses at – but does not establish – several reasons. Another potential reason: competitive swimmers _also_ lose body heat to the water during training. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/44 "2013-08-08T16:12:53Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Nope. The point is: you were wrong. > Here’s what you said: > > You attempted to assert that because buoyancy makes swimming easier humans having more body fat makes them better swimmers than other apes. Nope, at no time did I state that humans having more body fat makes them better swimmers than apes. > [@Lightray](#): > > As your evidence, you offered comparison to the body fat of other aquatic animals.Other aquatic animals have body fat for _entirely different reasons than buoyancy_. Marine mammals to be precise, not good analogies to the man vs. ape comparison, I’ll admit but they do achieve a neutral net buoyancy due to their high body fat content whether you think so or not. > [@Lightray](#): > > For most aquatic animals, increased buoyancy is actually detrimental. Aquatic Animals? Correct. Marine mammals? Not quite. Positive net buoyancy? Correct. Neutral versus negative net buoyancy? No. > [@Lightray](#): > > And _still_ has absolutely nothing to do with humans and/or apes swimming. Unless you are asserting that humans are aquatic animals, too? Also absurd. Yes, absurd, I said no such thing. > [@Lightray](#): > > Furthermore, your study does not support the contention that more fat = more buoyancy = better swimmer. All it says is that competitive swimmers have higher body fat than runners. It guesses at – but does not establish – several reasons. The cite was to refute **Turpentine** ’s ridiculous claim of 4% body fat in Olympic swimmers and to answer **John Mace’s** inquiry as to the gender difference. I merely said the study was “interesting”. > [@Lightray](#): > > Another potential reason: competitive swimmers _also_ lose body heat to the water during training. Maybe… except that when training and/or competing they need to shed all that excess heat. My honest answer to the actual OP is that, the main reason humans are better swimmers than all other primates is because we are smarter. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/45 "2013-08-08T16:43:05Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > We have a shoulder that is significantly more optimized for accurate throwing than apes. Perhaps the motions that it allows just happens to be useful for effective swimming. Do other apes not have a ball and socket shoulder joint? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/46 "2013-08-08T18:40:41Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Yeah, how come I haven’t heard of a chimp swimmer? Doesn’t sound too hard to train. In this video, [Cooper the Chimp](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqzTNASkTCs), who seems to be a virtual Michael Phelps among his kind, mostly just wades in a pool and jumps in a few times. He makes a few vague stroking movements but can’t be said to actually swim at any point. [Here’s an orangutan](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGP_j0uOwmc) which is also willing to get in the water, but like the chimp it makes a few stroking movements with its arms but can’t really move itself in the water. Despite the title of the video, it never actually swims. Considering how imitative the are of humans and all the other things they can be trained to do, the fact that apes have such difficulty learning to swim is remarkable. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/47 "2013-08-08T20:36:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Do other apes not have a ball and socket shoulder joint? They do, but our tendons and ligaments hook things up so that we can better store elastic energy in our shoulder according to [this](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v498/n7455/full/nature12267.html) Nature abstract. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/48 "2013-08-16T00:41:02Z")
Just saw this video [First documented video evidence of apes swimming is released](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/first-documented-video-evidence-of-apes-swimming-for-fun-is-released-194521362.html?vp=1). Granted, it is not wild apes doing this, but still. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/49 "2013-08-16T00:47:51Z")
OOps. Looks like the same animals as in **Colibri** ’s post, but different footage. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/50 "2013-08-16T00:53:33Z")
You can teach old Apes new tricks. > **[How do chimps swim? With the beast-stroke](https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/conservation/how-do-chimps-swim-with-the-beaststroke-20130815-2rzny.html)** > > Scientists have been surprised to witness a chimpanzee and an orangutan swimming and diving in water - a skill that primates were thought to have lost long ago. > [@](#): > > Scientists have been surprised to witness a chimpanzee and an orangutan swimming and diving in water - a skill that primates were thought to have lost long ago. > > Evolutionary researchers Renato and Nicole Bender made the astonishing observation while filming two primates raised in captivity in the US. > > ‘‘We were extremely surprised when the chimp, Cooper, dived repeatedly into a swimming pool in Missouri and seemed to feel very comfortable,’’ Mr Bender of the University of the Witwatersrand, in South Africa, said. > > ‘‘It was very surprising behaviour for an animal that is thought to be afraid of water.’’ > > The pair also observed an orangutan, dubbed Suryia, swimming at a private zoo in South Carolina. > > Read more: [How do chimps swim? With the beast-stroke](http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/animals/how-do-chimps-swim-with-the-beaststroke-20130815-2rzny.html#ixzz2c5ZbePQi) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/51 "2013-08-16T01:46:08Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > They do, but our tendons and ligaments hook things up so that we can better store elastic energy in our shoulder according to [this](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v498/n7455/full/nature12267.html) Nature abstract. Ah. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/52 "2013-08-16T03:20:37Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > OOps. Looks like the same animals as in **Colibri** ’s post, but different footage. Cooper the Chimp is the same. I’m not sure about the Orangutan. But it’s interesting footage, because both are swimming much more than in the videos I linked to. They are actually taking more than a few vague strokes, and are moving forward through the water. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/53 "2013-08-16T09:25:41Z")
It occurs to me that humans aren’t much better swimmers really. Learning to swim takes time and practice, meaning it’s not a skill you would even consider looking for in other animals. Someone who can’t swim (and that means most humans) will drown in water above his/her height, or in shallow turbulent water. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/54 "2013-08-16T10:03:27Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Note that because of our bipedal design, we have to LEARN to swim. A fundamental difference with quadripedal animals who naturally float with their heads out of the water, and can propel themselves basically by simply making walking motions while doing so. Toddlers and people who aren’t panicking about “OMG I’m in water!” do that too. We need to learn proper styles, but dog paddling is as natural for humans as for dogs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/55 "2013-08-16T14:38:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Cooper the Chimp is the same. I’m not sure about the Orangutan. But it’s interesting footage, because both are swimming much more than in the videos I linked to. They are actually taking more than a few vague strokes, and are moving forward through the water. The orang did, but the video I watched just showed the chimp floating and “diving” a bit. Hard to swim when you have to cover your face with one of your hands. I would not call what the chimp was doing “swimming”. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/56 "2013-09-12T16:06:23Z")
Monkeys swim pretty good after all. 😃 I saw some of these little guys about 12 years ago when we vacationed in Florida. Apparently monkeys like sex too. Geez, a 1000 descendants from 6 monkeys left in the late 30’s. > **[1,000 wild monkeys in Florida were introduced during Tarzan filming](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2418549/Tarzan-monkeys-Florida-number-1-000-introduced-74-years-ago.html)** > > The Rhesus monkeys are now attracting tourists and haven't had an obvious impact on the ecosystem and so are being left alone. > [@](#): > > A huge population of wild monkeys is sweeping across Florida after being introduced during the filming of TARZAN. > > There are now thought to be 1,000 Rhesus monkeys roaming the sunshine state - all descended from three males and females released together in the late 1930s. > > The ‘couples’ were brought to America and marooned on a small island near the Silver River by tour operator Colonel Tooey. > > Some tour guides say he wanted to capitalise on the success of the 1939 hit Tarzan Finds A Son, which filmed nearby, to promote his jungle tours. > > However the bungling businessman didn’t realise the species could swim and they quickly escaped from ‘Monkey Island’ and started breeding. > > Nearly 80 years later some have been seen as far away as Jacksonville and Sarasota - more than 100 miles from Silver River State Park, near Ocala. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520/57 "2013-09-12T19:02:46Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Having a lot of fur seems not to mix well with swimming. Tell that to polar bears (among others). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-humans-such-better-swimmers-than-all-our-primate-cousins/665520.md?page=2)