# Why are Italian-American names so badly mispronounced, even by their owners? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 22, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660 "2005-03-22T00:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/41 "2005-03-22T21:15:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Because the name has become anglicized within the family. I pronounce my Polish surname with an English pronunciation, not the correct Polish one. Let’s suppose my last name was “Kowalski.” Even though I know it’s actually pronounced “Koh-VAHL-skee,” I choose to pronounce it “Koh-WALL-ski,” because it’s simply easier that way. Nine out of ten people pronounce it the English way, so rather than correct everybody, it’s just easier on all parties involved to simply anglicize the name. I hadn’t noticed this before my last reply. The problem with my Polish last name is that if tried to pronounce using English, it comes out a horrible “Gah-las-zoo-ski”. Just too far off to my ears. I always say it with the correct Polish pronunciation. I don’t get hung up if someone doesn’t get it just right. However, I do prefer something remotely close. I’ve actually met several people with the “aszewski” ending on a Polish name. For those totally unfamiliar with Polish, “w” is pronounced like a “v” as in German. When uttered really fast, “chev-ski” and “chef-ski” are practically undistinguishable. “Ski” and the end of a Polish name just means “son”. Thus I am “son of Golaszew”, and “Kowalski” is “son of Kowal.” ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/42 "2005-03-22T21:39:40Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > My mother and her twin brother pronounce their family name differently! Everyone in my family pronounces the last name as “Gaw-lah-chef-ski”. I now pronounce it “Go-wah-chef-ski” because I asked some people who actually were from Poland how to pronounce it. I should think someone who was from Warsaw might know the language. 😉 As I posted before, I’m not that particular on how people pronounce it. Then again, in real life I know a number of African nationals, and their names are even harder to grok than mine. Like a woman from Zambia with the first name “Chileshe”. Let’s not even get into how her last name is pronounced. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![violacrane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c57346/32.png) [@violacrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/violacrane)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/43 "2005-03-22T22:14:26Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The worst Italian-American surname mispronunciation standard I’ve ever encountered (and I AM Italian-American!) is \Tagliaferro\. > > Pronounced \“Tolliver”\. > > :smack: I’m pretty certain there are Tollivers spelt Taliaferro in Britain also. It may well be that this is not so much an Americanisation as an Anglicizing of the name, travelling with the family from England. [History of Taliaferro County](http://web.infoave.net/~taliaferro/page2.html) > [@](#): > > The county is named for Colonel Benjamin Taliaferro, a Revolutionary War officer prominent in state and national affairs as a member of Congress and a candidate for President. His name (and the county’s) is pronounced Tolliver in the English fashion. [This genaeology site](http://www.sharpwriters.com/genealogy/taliaferro.html) also shows that pronunciation and spelling have been unstable for some time before emigration of Talliaferros to the Americas. > [@](#): > > the favorite wife of King John of England was Isabel, daughter of County Aymer de TAILLEFER, the swordsmith. From the same site we find that Bartholomew TALLAFER, a subject of the Duke of Venice, applied for residency in London on March 4, 1562 but his children went on to spell their name TALIAFERRO. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/44 "2005-03-22T22:21:30Z")
Thanks, **violacrane**! I didn’t realize this was a transatlantic problem. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/45 "2005-03-22T22:23:12Z")
Incidentally, I come from a long line of Ciccarellas on my mom’s side, and _that_ is pronounced in the Italian fashion (…but with American vowels…) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/46 "2005-03-22T23:14:22Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > I hadn’t noticed this before my last reply. The problem with my Polish last name is that if tried to pronounce using English, it comes out a horrible “Gah-las-zoo-ski”. Just too far off to my ears. I always say it with the correct Polish pronunciation. I don’t get hung up if someone doesn’t get it just right. However, I do prefer something remotely close. I’ve actually met several people with the “aszewski” ending on a Polish name. For those totally unfamiliar with Polish, “w” is pronounced like a “v” as in German. When uttered really fast, “chev-ski” and “chef-ski” are practically undistinguishable. “Ski” and the end of a Polish name just means “son”. Thus I am “son of Golaszew”, and “Kowalski” is “son of Kowal.” To be precise, “w” is pronounced as a “v” in German, unless an unvoiced consonant follows—then it is pronounced as a “f.” The reason for this is easy to understand if you try to pronounce “-evski” with a voiced “v” and unvoiced “s.” It’s practically impossible to do without stopping. (A similar phenomenon occurs in English in reverse: look at the pronunciation of the “s” in the words “chefs” and “lives.” In the first example, the “f” is unvoiced, so the plural marker “-s” takes the usual unvoiced pronunciation. In the second, the “v” is voiced, so the plural marker “-s” takes the voiced pronunciation “z.”) Also, “-ski” does not literally mean “son of.” It’s a simple male adjective marker in Polish ("-ska" is the female counterpart). The name “Kowalski” would mean “of the (black)smith.” You are correct in saying that most likely it means “son of the smith, or son of Kowal,” but that’s not literally what the ending means. For example, “Jablonski” would mean “of the apple orchard” or “guy who lives by the apple orchard,” not necessarily “son of Jablon.” And “Krakowski” would mean “of Krakow” or “guy from Krakow.” Similarly your name, Golaszewski, most likely does not derive from “son of Golaszew.” “Golaszew” doesn’t mean anything in Polish; it doesn’t really make any sense that it would come from this. More likely is it comes from the name of a village, particularly the village Gołaszewo. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/47 "2005-03-22T23:23:28Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > I don’t get hung up if someone doesn’t get it just right. However, I do prefer something remotely close. There are about a million Poles in Cleveland. Back in the 80s, when the local news had to report all the stuff that was going on in Poland, with Solidarity and whatnot, they would try to pronounce the names correctly so as not to grate on the ears of the Polish viewership. Boy did they try. I remember one anchor trying to say “Wojciech Jaruzelski” the Polish way - I think she had to be taken for emergency surgery to get her tongue untied. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/48 "2005-03-22T23:23:30Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > To be precise, “w” is pronounced as a “v” in German… That should read: ‘To be precise, “w” is pronounced as a “v” in **Polish** …’ ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/49 "2005-03-23T00:19:03Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > **BobT** corrected you on San Pedro (Peedro to the locals), so I’ll correct you on San Jose. Pretty much everyone around here says something like San-a-ZAY or San-oh-ZAY, but all slurred together. Occasionally an Hispanic newscaster will pronounce it “correctly” Who are these people? Down here in Monterey and even among people I know from San Jose, they don’t pronounce it as “sanazay” or “sanozay”. Most people I know don’t have much problems with French Surnames. I had a co-worker with the last name of “Paquette” and it was definitely not pronounced as "“Pocket”. There is some mangling of Italian surnames here in Monterey, but not nearly as bad as pronouncing “Tagliaferro” as “Tolliver”. A lot of people have families here who moved from Italy relatively recently to the area (around the 40’s) so their parents often Spoke Italian still and pronounced the last names right. A friend of mine’s first name is “Girolamo” and no one can say it right, so he goes by “Jerry”. His borther’s name is Tomasso, and goes by “Tommy”. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/50 "2005-03-23T16:23:31Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Also, “-ski” does not literally mean “son of.” It’s a simple male adjective marker in Polish ("-ska" is the female counterpart). The name “Kowalski” would mean “of the (black)smith.” You are correct in saying that most likely it means “son of the smith, or son of Kowal,” but that’s not literally what the ending means. For example, “Jablonski” would mean “of the apple orchard” or “guy who lives by the apple orchard,” not necessarily “son of Jablon.” And “Krakowski” would mean “of Krakow” or “guy from Krakow.” > > Similarly your name, Golaszewski, most likely does not derive from “son of Golaszew.” “Golaszew” doesn’t mean anything in Polish; it doesn’t really make any sense that it would come from this. More likely is it comes from the name of a village, particularly the village Gołaszewo. Thanks. Looks like this site agrees with you: [http://www.ancestry.com/search/SurnamePage.aspx?html=b&ln=Golaszewski&sourcecode=13304](http://www.ancestry.com/search/SurnamePage.aspx?html=b&ln=Golaszewski&sourcecode=13304) What does the Golaszewski name mean? Last Name: Golaszewski 1. Polish: habitational name for someone from a place called Gołaszew or Gołaszewo. ## Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4 Would you happen to know the pronunciation of Gołaszew or Gołaszewo? ---
**Author:** ![UncaStuart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncastuart/32/404_2.png) [@UncaStuart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaStuart)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/51 "2005-03-23T18:19:23Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > Who are these people? Down here in Monterey and even among people I know from San Jose, they don’t pronounce it as “sanazay” or “sanozay”. I’m a fifth-generation (on both sides) San Jose native, and “sanazay” is the way I’ve always heard it in the family. And “loss gaddis” for Los Gatos and “PAH-harrow” for Pajaro. ---
**Author:** ![UncaStuart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncastuart/32/404_2.png) [@UncaStuart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaStuart)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/52 "2005-03-23T18:22:53Z")
Oh, and my youngest grandson (thereby a seventh-generation dude) lives on 14th Street and pronounces it “greebhafroof.” We’ll have to wait until he’s little older to get input from him on this question. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/53 "2005-03-23T19:10:04Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > I’m not sure how long it takes, but the language spoken by immigrants doesn’t seem to take that long to diverge from that spoken in the old country. I’ve witnessed my last name changing in the past two generations. It’s a pretty rare single syllable name with a long o, but most people want to pronounce it with a short o. My grandfather and father would always introduce himself with the correct pronunciation, but they considered it rude to correct people. My brothers now just introduce themselves with the “incorrect” pronunciation, and so, of course, do their kids. I’m the only brother now who uses the “correct” pronunciation, and get ribbed by my brothers for being affected. In fact, my younger brother can’t even remember anyone pronouncing it “correctly.” I don’t have any children, so I guess when I go, the old family name goes. ::sniff:: ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/54 "2005-03-23T19:35:31Z")
> [@UncaStuart](#): > > I’m a fifth-generation (on both sides) San Jose native, and “sanazay” is the way I’ve always heard it in the family. And “loss gaddis” for Los Gatos and “PAH-harrow” for Pajaro. I second this. I’ve always said “Sanozay” (although Los Gatos is more like “loss goddos” for me). I don’t think this is so much a lack of Spanish as general quick speaking and laziness. I’ve never known a Sacramentan that calls their city anything but " Sacramenno". There is a rousing debate in Sacramento, though, about how to pronouce the rather large street “Don Julio.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/55 "2005-03-23T19:51:18Z")
Chitow – My first guess would be to rhyme it with “git off!” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/56 "2005-03-23T20:00:03Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > A friend of mine’s first name is “Girolamo” and no one can say it right, so he goes by “Jerry”. His borther’s name is Tomasso, and goes by “Tommy”. I have a friend whose grandparents came from Italy. Of the first generation born in Italy but largely raised in the United States was one “Giovanni,” which is the Italian form of “John.” Giovanni didn’t like having a “foreign” name, so he asked people to call him “Joe.” Later, he officially changed his name to “Joseph.” So, born a “John,” now a “Joseph.” ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/57 "2005-03-23T20:29:35Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I have a friend whose grandparents came from Italy. Of the first generation born in Italy but largely raised in the United States was one “Giovanni,” which is the Italian form of “John.” Giovanni didn’t like having a “foreign” name, so he asked people to call him “Joe.” Later, he officially changed his name to “Joseph.” So, born a “John,” now a “Joseph.” My grandfather and his brother and sisters were born Giuseppe, Provvidenza, Antonino, Maria, Rosa, Pietro, Concetta, Francesco, Salvatore, and Stella. They’re now Joe, Florence, Anthony, Mary, Rose, Peter, Clara, Frank, Sam and Jean. Thus are the wages of assimilation. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/58 "2005-03-23T20:42:01Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > My grandfather and his brother and sisters were born Giuseppe, Provvidenza, Antonino, Maria, Rosa, Pietro, Concetta, Francesco, Salvatore, and Stella. They’re now Joe, Florence, Anthony, Mary, Rose, Peter, Clara, Frank, Sam and Jean. Thus are the wages of assimilation. You know, Marlon Brando standing in the street yelling “JEEAAAANNNN!!!” just wouldn’t have had the same impact… ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/59 "2005-03-23T20:59:39Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > My grandfather and his brother and sisters were born Giuseppe, Provvidenza, Antonino, Maria, Rosa, Pietro, Concetta, Francesco, Salvatore, and Stella. They’re now Joe, Florence, Anthony, Mary, Rose, Peter, Clara, Frank, Sam and Jean. Thus are the wages of assimilation. It seems like most of these names were changed to English equivalents. Italian immigrants often seem to do that. But Stella was certainly not an unheard-of name in anglophone America; my grandmother was named that, in 1896, and they were at least a couple of generations down the line from any who immigrated. Perhaps because it was my grandmother’s name, It’s always struck me as sort of an “old-lady’s-name”, but I do notice it’s making a slight comeback. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/60 "2005-03-24T00:16:33Z")
> [@UncaStuart](#): > > I’m a fifth-generation (on both sides) San Jose native, and “sanazay” is the way I’ve always heard it in the family. And “loss gaddis” for Los Gatos and “PAH-harrow” for Pajaro. Ew. Well, from that response, it seems the closer you get to the city, the worse the natives pronounce it :). Please tell me you don’t pronounce Monterey as “monneray”. Those who drop the t will be hung, set on fire and then drowned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660.md?page=4)