# Why are Italian-American names so badly mispronounced, even by their owners? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 22, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660 "2005-03-22T00:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/121 "2022-10-07T07:00:50Z")
People don’t need non-English or unintuitive spellings to mispronounce names. My surname ends in “ack,” rhyming with sack, black, rack, quack, plaque, knack, yak… But sooo many people pronounce it “ick” or an occasional “eck.” I don’t understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/122 "2022-10-07T09:33:57Z")
Lidl (the supermarket chain) is pronounced something like ‘leed-l’ in German, where it originates. In the UK, it’s pronounced ‘liddle’. Who says so? [Lidl](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkwFNFhxHY8) says so. They even make a feature of it - slogans like ‘the middle of Lidl’ to describe their discount hardware and homeware section, and the slogan ‘big on [quality/etc], Lidl on price’ (which sounds a bit like ‘little on price’) This upsets a lot of Germans, but it happens the world over. When a word from your language crosses outside of your borders, it will probably change, and you can’t stop that. The name for roast beef is borrowed from English in many continental European languages, and is transformed into ‘rosbif’ or similar. It happens. You can’t stop it, and you’ll just hurt yourself trying. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/123 "2022-10-07T15:28:56Z")
That’s what I was going to say… the names were probably from somewhere with a variant pronunciation like Sicily, and then got further anglicized over time. Seems like some of the others are more along the line of poor transliterations- if Suzuki doesn’t actually sound like the actual Japanese name, that’s more the fault of whoever originally transliterated it as “Suzuki” than anyone pronouncing the letters. That seems to be the same issue with Loughead/Lockheed; I’d have guessed something like “Luff-head”, not Lockheed. > [@cornflakes](#): > > here are a lot of Czech and German communities to the west of Houston. My mom worked with a Jody Tobias who pronounced it “Toh-by-us.” Her parents, who lived seventy miles away, pronounced it “Toh-bee-osh.” The same went for a Fikac: “fee-kak” in the big city; “fee-koch” back at home. > > A friend named Cunningham moved to a German/Czech town. Considering the ‘Happy Days’ jokes said by the Hruskas and Tobiases, I’m surprised that she didn’t somehow Czechify her name. Some of those Czech names are crazy. I went to high school with a guy whose last name is “Hrncir”. Turns out it’s pronounced “Hincher” these days, although I’m guessing it had some guttural sounds that don’t quite make it into English. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/124 "2022-10-07T15:45:44Z")
Czech has a somewhat phonemic orthography, and it could be argued that some of those names are simply being spelled wrong: Hrnčíř, not “Hrncir”; Tobiáš, not “Tobias”; Mařenka, not “Marenka”. If you want to English-ify the spelling you may have to get a little more creative with the transliteration. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/125 "2022-10-07T15:49:12Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It’s impossible for the owner of a name to mispronounce his own name. Whatever pronunciation that person uses is the correct pronunciation. Thank you! As a full blooded Italian American, I appreciate that. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/126 "2022-10-07T16:02:48Z")
Very true! Really, I just logged in to say wow, I’m really not even the same person I was back then! I’m glad that the boards are still going strong. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/127 "2022-10-07T17:56:39Z")
The comedian and actor Mike Birbiglia pronounces his last name “Bir BIG lee ah.” He says from time to time people come up to him and say, "You know, in Italy, it’s pronounced ‘Bir BEE lee ah.’ He replies, “Yeah, and in America, you’re annoying.” ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/128 "2022-10-09T17:16:46Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > My opinion is that one does not own one’s name Just throwing in that, from a comparative law perspective (and here I am paging @Northern_Piper, who I know is interested in such things), this is a point where civil law and common law traditions differ. In the common law, it is usually thought that people do own their name, and consequently, such countries are usually quite liberal when it comes to permitting name changes. The civil law is stricter in this regard; it considers that society, as a whole, has an interest in the system of personal names to identify its members. In such jurisdictions, people can usually not change their name freely and unilaterally but rather need to present a convincing reason for the change to some government agency, and even if such a reason exists they might not be completely free in the choice of the new name. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/129 "2022-10-09T17:28:43Z")
I also don’t give a person some kind of superior authority over es name. If most people pronounce it differently, then you can’t call them wrong. Furthermore, in my view, the correct pronunciation in the language of origin can never be wrong. So, the person’s personal preference might be _a_ correct pronunciation but isn’t necessarily the _only_ correct pronunciation. And if you are talking about someone from a different nationality or language, I think it’s fine to pronounce a name as you would in your own language. Also, minor differences in pronunciation, especially with respect to minor vowel changes, shouldn’t be a cause for concern, especially if yuenleople involved have different accents. For example, most of us don’t worry about trying to figure out how William Shakespeare or Julius Caesar pronounced their own names. And that’s fine with living people too, so far as I’m concerned. Bottom line: Lighten up about your name. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/130 "2022-10-09T19:54:31Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > This upsets a lot of Germans, but it happens the world over. When a word from your language crosses outside of your borders, it will probably change, and you can’t stop that. > > The name for roast beef is borrowed from English in many continental European languages, and is transformed into ‘rosbif’ or similar. It happens. You can’t stop it, and you’ll just hurt yourself trying I argue that when one language borrows a word from another, that word is now part of the borrowing language and thus subject to the grammatical and phonological rules of the new tongue. So when the French borrow “roast beef”, it’s not wrong for them to spell and pronounce it according to French rules. Because “rosbif” is a French word. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/131 "2022-10-09T20:09:30Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > When a word from your language crosses outside of your borders, it will probably change, and you can’t stop that. And I would expand this policy to include names, certainly names for places, languages, ethnic groups, and even people. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/132 "2022-10-09T21:19:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I also don’t give a person some kind of superior authority over es name. If most people pronounce it differently, then you can’t call them wrong. Oh learned that early enough in life 😂 Many Bengali names are not pronounced the same in most other states in India. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/133 "2022-10-09T21:41:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > if Suzuki doesn’t actually sound like the actual Japanese name, that’s more the fault of whoever originally transliterated it as “Suzuki” than anyone pronouncing the letters. I’d say Suzuki is as close to the Japanese pronunciation as you will get using Roman letters. The issue with pronunciation is that English speakers tend to add strong emphasis to the second syllable, lengthening the vowel: “SuZUUki” and imposing a low-high-low pitch accent. This syllable stress doesn’t exist in Japanese. In Japanese the “u” sounds are both short, somewhat rounded, and not emphasised at all, and the pitch accent contour is low-high-high. That’s not to say that the English way is wrong (when speaking English), only to try to explain why the Japanese pronunciation may sound unfamiliar to English ears, and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/134 "2022-10-09T22:03:09Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Oh learned that early enough in life 😂 Many Bengali names are not pronounced the same in most other states in India. Exactly. No one except those rare few people from my own ethnic group are going to pronounce my name correctly. So I give everyone a break and don’t sweat how people are pronouncing my name. So it should be for tout le monde. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/135 "2022-10-10T12:31:59Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I argue that when one language borrows a word from another, that word is now part of the borrowing language and thus subject to the grammatical and phonological rules of the new tongue. So when the French borrow “roast beef”, it’s not wrong for them to spell and pronounce it according to French rules. Because “rosbif” is a French word. Agreed, and furthermore when the borrowing language is English, which sort of makes up the rules as it goes along, all bets are off. Chorizo is commonly pronounced in the UK as though it has a T in it (chu-rit-zo) ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/136 "2022-10-10T13:44:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > ethnic group Agree with you wholeheartedly except for the use of the E word. In my experience Whites use the E (ethnic) word to actually mean non-white. For example : A saree is ethnic clothing, a kilt is Scottish clothing. Curry is ethnic food, pasta is Italian food. I think you can safely say Bengali. There are most likely more Bengalis than Scottish people in the world. And if someone does’t know who Bengalis are, they can always Google. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/137 "2022-10-10T14:30:07Z")
I don’t know what you mean here. My ethnic group is Bengali but for the purposes of the discussion I wanted to use the general rather than the specific term. Here in America white people don’t deny having an ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/138 "2022-10-10T16:13:49Z")
Sorry if this was discussed already, but what’s the deal with Guy Fieri? Seems like everyone pronounces it “Fee EDDY”. Is that the original Italian way? Wiki doesn’t seem to think so. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/139 "2022-10-10T16:22:20Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > what’s the deal with Guy Fieri? Seems like everyone pronounces it “Fee EDDY”. Is that the original Italian way? Wiki doesn’t seem to think so. This one is extremely irritating. He thinks he is pronouncing it the “authentic Italian way” but he is badly botching the Italian _R_ sound. He is getting almost everything else wrong too, including the placement of the stress, the length of the _E_ vowel, and the pronunciation of the _FI_. And his real name is Ferry. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660/140 "2022-10-10T16:23:24Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Speaking of French names, the name “Beauchamp” is a common name both in Quebec and in Louisiana. The way Americans pronounce it has me cringing. Which Americans? I’ve heard two different pronunciations. Bow (as in arrows) - champ and beach - um, the latter usually by those whose name is Beauchamp. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-italian-american-names-so-badly-mispronounced-even-by-their-owners/295660.md?page=8)