# Why are Jewish people so disproportionately successful **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027 "2013-06-14T21:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/181 "2013-11-16T16:03:31Z")
> [@Avalanche1521](#): > > They aren’t any smarter I don’t know what you are reading… They feel they have been suppressed by the holocaust and they are they only ones with struggles. So they stick together. They have lobbyists in DC for Israel which gets strong contacts in business and politics. So they are not any smarter they just stay together and will make sure a jew gets higher up the latter before anyone else even if they are more qualified. I am not anti semitic or agiant Israel. I have to give them credit even though I feel it’s disgusting how they are treating Palestine but that’s a completely different subject. So we all stick together and think were the only ones with struggles? But you don’t have an anti Semitic bone in your body . I was not aware that we think we are the only ones with struggles, as a matter of fact Jews are on the forefront of those who are oppressed…I sometimes wonder if the reason jews are such high achievers is because throughout history we have been victimized and perhaps the strongest survived? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/182 "2013-11-16T16:39:17Z")
[QUOTE=Avalanche1521] So they are not any smarter they just stay together and will make sure a jew gets higher up the latter before anyone else even if they are more qualified… [/QUOTE] Interesting. Do you have any proof for this? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/183 "2013-11-16T17:12:10Z")
I think all the Jewish freedom riders and civil rights activists, some who died in the segregationed south, would have issues with our new posters premise that they only care about their own struggles. Look up the poem/song “Strange Fruit”. And incredibly important take on Southern violence against blacks. It was written by a NYC Jewish school teacher. I love the idea that Holocaust victims “felt” suppressed, as if that wasn’t real. I swear, there is so much fail in that post, from facts, to history, to grammar (latter?), where to begin? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/184 "2013-11-16T17:13:22Z")
Help help, I’m being suppressed! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/185 "2013-11-16T17:25:15Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Help help, I’m being suppressed! But not nearly as much as the white, Christian, heterosexual male. They _know_ suffering. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/186 "2013-11-16T18:25:00Z")
> [@Avalanche1521](#): > > I am not anti semitic or agiant Israel. But just imagine if you _were_ a giant Israel. Every step you took would cause earthquakes and kill thousands. You could crush all before you and became lord of the earth! ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/187 "2013-11-17T15:21:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Help help, I’m being suppressed! Then I suggest you stick together with others who who are suppressed and maybe you can rise above in art, science, music and medicine, just like the jews ---
**Author:** ![Longshanks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Longshanks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Longshanks)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/188 "2013-11-17T17:16:58Z")
Here’s some food for thought what if them being Jews has no bearing on whether or not they are successful. You know maybe they work hard or something. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/189 "2013-11-17T17:19:08Z")
Can I ask a question? In the “Does society have a skewed view on what constitutes a good income?” thread, I relayed this anecdote: > [@](#): > > The truth, good or bad, is that people judge themselves against what they see. Not the abstract “guy under the bridge”, not the guy who lives a million miles away somewhere in a Third World village. But the people they live next to, who they see at the grocery store, and who they work with. Their own parents. How we compare against other people is the most obvious metric of success. > > To illustrate: I was talking to a successful professional the other day. Her husband is a college professor and a rabbi. Their children are professionals, too–a lawyer, a doctor, and a college professor. > > She told me quite frankly that she’s unimpressed with her grandchildren. Expecting to hear something juicy, I asked her what they are doing. Come to find out all of the grandkids are in college. Just no Ivy Leagues. None of them are studying anything “high brow” and they seem aimless in their aspirations. One wants to be an LPN (shudder!) They aren’t going to be “anyone” when they grow up, she fears. She said this all of this non-ironically. I could tell she was sincerely disappointed. > > In my family, having all the grandchildren in college, unsaddled with babies or baby daddies, on the good side of the law, sobriety, and nervous breakdown, would be cause for celebration. I’m a hard agnostic, but even I’d be praising the Lord for such a “blessing”! But for this woman, no doubt accustomed to only the highest levels of success, it’s a pretty mediocre standard. When I asked her why she thought her grandchildren were so mediocre, I expected to hear the “normal” complaints of older people. Like kids today are spoiled and don’t know the meaning of hard work. But what she said raised an eyebrow. She blamed her grandchildren’s mediocrity on the fact her son-in-law isn’t Jewish. Or rather, that he wasn’t born Jewish. He converted before marrying his wife (her daughter). Ouch. I mean, not only does it must suck to have your mother-in-law think your mediocrity has tainted her progeny, but that she’d also be…I don’t know what the right word is. A culture snob? But it seems to me it’s more than snobbery. I can’t imagine anyone else saying something like this without coming across as bigoted. But the way she said it, it was like she expected me to say, “Of course! We goyim ARE stupid. Please forgive us.” Is this a widespread belief amongst Jewish people, that marrying gentiles or converts threatens Jewish achievement? Or is this woman an analomy? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/190 "2013-11-17T17:23:39Z")
Yes, this woman is an anomaly. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/191 "2013-11-17T17:29:14Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > analomy? This goyim IS stupid. Please forgive me. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/192 "2013-11-17T17:36:51Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > This goyim IS stupid. Please forgive me. :smack: 🙂 But seriously, I’ve never, ever heard that sentiment before. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/193 "2013-11-17T17:44:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Is this a widespread belief amongst Jewish people, that marrying gentiles or converts threatens Jewish achievement? Or is this woman an analomy? That’s terrible. Obviously there are chauvinist Jews out there like with any other group but most of us would find her views to be disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/194 "2013-11-17T17:45:15Z")
I’ve known Jews who bought into what can be called perhaps “Jewish exceptionalism” … fewer now than in my Dad’s generation (and he was one) … in fact I don’t know any right now even though I am sure they exist. I put it as a reaction to the times in which overt anti-Semitism including that much less severe than the Holocaust but very pervasive was endemic. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/195 "2013-11-17T17:46:15Z")
It does not excuse it btw. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/196 "2013-11-17T18:09:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > This goyim IS stupid. Please forgive me. :smack: OK. (I will point out amidst the forgiveness that _goyim_ is the plural of _goy_. 😛 ) ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/197 "2013-11-17T23:13:38Z")
Having a particularly [high level of cognitive ability is a major factor](http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-jewish-iq18-2009apr18,0,7978229.story#axzz2kwo72Kel). > [@](#): > > Psychologists and educational researchers have pegged their average IQ at 107.5 to 115. That’s only modestly higher than the overall European average of 100, but the gap is large enough to produce a huge difference in the proportion of geniuses. When a group’s average IQ is 100, the percentage of people above 140 is 0.4%; when the average is 110, the genius rate is 2.3%. > > Though Jews make up less than 3% of the U.S. population, they have won more than 25% of the Nobel Prizes awarded to American scientists since 1950, account for 20% of this country’s chief executives and make up 22% of Ivy League students, the pair write. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/198 "2013-11-17T23:37:04Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > That’s terrible. Obviously there are chauvinist Jews out there like with any other group but most of us would find her views to be disgusting. Yeah, we’re better than that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/199 "2013-11-18T14:33:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Can I ask a question? > > In the “Does society have a skewed view on what constitutes a good income?” thread, I relayed this anecdote: > > When I asked her why she thought her grandchildren were so mediocre, I expected to hear the “normal” complaints of older people. Like kids today are spoiled and don’t know the meaning of hard work. > > But what she said raised an eyebrow. She blamed her grandchildren’s mediocrity on the fact her son-in-law isn’t Jewish. Or rather, that he wasn’t born Jewish. He converted before marrying his wife (her daughter). > > Ouch. I mean, not only does it must suck to have your mother-in-law think your mediocrity has tainted her progeny, but that she’d also be…I don’t know what the right word is. A culture snob? But it seems to me it’s more than snobbery. I can’t imagine anyone else saying something like this without coming across as bigoted. But the way she said it, it was like she expected me to say, “Of course! We goyim ARE stupid. Please forgive us.” > > Is this a widespread belief amongst Jewish people, that marrying gentiles or converts threatens Jewish achievement? Or is this woman an analomy? Sounds like the mother in law from hell. 😃 The sentiment isn’t unfamiliar to me, but not because of the Jewish thing. My father is not Jewish, he comes from a very high-achieving family … my mother is Jewish, and her family also has a tradition of achievement. Growing up, we kids definitely got the message that achievement was expected of us - not because of our culture, but because of our family background. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027/200 "2013-11-18T16:09:23Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > mother in law from hell. …they come from other places, too? ~rimshot~ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jewish-people-so-disproportionately-successful/661027.md?page=11)