# Why are Jews hated so much? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2002, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749 "2002-07-25T13:00:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Henry\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Henry\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry_B)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/141 "2002-12-26T20:54:55Z")
**Rampisad** I did not want to be racistic, or sounding rasistic. Quite the contrary. > [@](#): > > What you have said here is pure and simple stereotyping - and that is the first step towards racism. I must tell you that Jews are no different from any other people, they are not in any way gifted, or special, or “better than average”. If you say they are, then you say they are different. If they are different, then it’s OK to hate them. Stop and think very carefully before you go down the path that has caused so much sorrow! I know a few examples of minorities that think: “We are here as foreigners, our position is number two, let’s try to be number one”. Like an Afro-American said once to Archie Bunker: “Yeah, let’s be like Avis!” Joke aside, but I have seen very positive things in this “struggle upwards”. One example I know is the Tatars moving to Finland some 130 years ago. They were totally outfrosen, by the majority and especially by the establishment. Today their grand-grand-children are very educated, better than the average, and have top jobs in the business field. Absolutely no-one looks down on them, we look up at them! I do not agree that a group can not reach a higher cultural/economical position than an other group. That depends very much on what background and back up You have. One example: We that are ice-hocky-fans in Finland admire the Americans (including Canada in this respect, **because they never give up!!!**. (And hockey is culture, do not try to argue about that ;)). The US team can be behind 5 -1 when the last period begins and they just attack, attack and attack. And make scores! Not always winning, but never giving up. And I call that “the true American spirit”. Do not think that I am buttering You up here. I hate Your foreign policy! But I admire the Americans. As people. And am I wrong if I tell that the American people often in individual situations are stepping on the same side as the under-dog? Anyhow You have many films where the guy in a totally impossible situation begins to fight upwards. Against anything that is wrong, or because of something (s)he thinks is right. (S)he can win, (s)he can lose, but (s)he always win morally. That is also, as I see it “the American spirit”. That Washinton is not always on the side of the under-dog, to put it mildly, is another story. So, I think people are different, but naturally a group can’t be stereo-typed. Still about America: I do not know how much You take advantage from the fact that You have all the world cultures gathered together? I think here You do not use the opportunity fully out. (I do not mean every individual, I do not want to stereo-type people in this way). Here in Europe, it is “finer” and “more educated”, to be able to speak eg. French than eg. Polish or Finnish. So the 'fine" cultures are chosen to be “fine”. Don’t ask me, by whom? > [@](#): > > I confess to knowing nothing about the conflicts between Finland and Sweden. Whatever may be in your history, do not infer that other situations are simply replicas of what you know. History in short: Finland belonged to Sweden for 800 years and to the tsarian Russia for 110 years and got it’s independence 1917 after an civil war. Ther was never a conflict with Sweden, but in the 20’ties and 30’ties there was a nationalistic movement: “Finland to the Finns”, etc., while it was economically mostly “ruled” by the Finnish-Swedish 5 - 6 % minority. The racism begun to tone out during the war, when Stalin attacked Finland and everyone was at the front. Marschalk Mannerheim, a Finn-Swede, led Finland to many victories, and nobody cared about the fact that his Finnish language was not so good, and he spoke to the generals in Swedish. OK, this begins to be a rant, I just want to say, that there are suprisingly many minorities in this world that has “made it”, and I admire these minorities. That does not mean that I begin to look down on the majorities, but they are usually safe, anyhow in many countries, so they do not have the need to “try harder”. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/142 "2002-12-27T07:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyla \* > \*\*I still do want to see a cite on how Jews get ahead by nepotism, though. \*\* No, no, that’s not what I was trying to say. I’m not saying they are getting on by nepotism, more than anyone else. But that after some time it is just stands out more. If someone looks at the members of some board or council or whatever and sees a lot of Jewish names, it raises suspicion. Maybe even fear of a conspiracy. A list with all Irish names probably wouldn’t warrant a second look, although these people might easily be on there thruough nepotism as well. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/143 "2002-12-27T14:39:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Latro \* > \*\* > If someone looks at the members of some board or council or whatever and sees a lot of Jewish names, it raises suspicion. Maybe even fear of a conspiracy. A list with all Irish names probably wouldn’t warrant a second look, although these people might easily be on there thruough nepotism as well. \*\* This only makes sense if people are already disposed to anti-semitism. Why wouldn’t you feel something wrong if all the names on the board were Murphy and O’Donnell? This feels much more like rationalization than explaination. ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/144 "2002-12-28T20:18:28Z")
because the catholic church tells GOD what to think. Dal Timgar ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/145 "2002-12-28T23:59:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*If Jews controlled the world financial system, I sure wouldn’t have this level of outstanding student loans! \*\* What? You mean you folks _aren’t_ getting your monthly “We control the world, here’s your share” stipend? Huh. If I was you, I’d write and find out where that check’s been going. You could be due for some serious $$$$ when they finally get things straightened out. The address is: Learned Elders of Zion 1 We Control the British Pound lane Battle Creek, MI, 49014 No, no need to thank me. Just buy me lunch if we ever meet at a Dopefest or something. 😛 Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/146 "2002-12-29T03:55:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Cermonies \* > \*\*I did hear something about recently a Catholic priest saying that Jews could be ‘saved’ without Jesus, but I’m not sure if this is or has been a part of Catholic dogma. \*\* The following is a response I received from a Catholic apologist site affiliated with the Philadelphia archdiocese. I questioned what the notion of salvation only being possible through Christ meant, in that it troubled me to think that good people could be excluded from salvation as a result. The specific example I used was a pious Jew. Here’s the reponse. > [@](#): > > \*\*The new Catechism of the Catholic Church speaks strongly, as we would expect it to, about the essential place of Jesus Christ and baptism and membership in the church in God’s saving plan. Then it adds a most significant and critical sentence: “Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” (No. 846, quoting the Vatican Council Constitution on the Church.) > > If you read the emphasized words carefully, you can see that they would not apply to billions of people on earth now and in the past, including most, if not all, people of the Hebrew tradition. > > The idea behind this teaching is made more explicit in the following catechism paragraph: “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation” (No. 847). > > In other words, God’s grace is guiding and saving those who live sincerely and conscientiously good lives, but who have, for whatever reason, honestly never seen the embrace of Christ or the church as a personal religious obligation. > > Pope John Paul II invokes this Catholic understanding in very hopeful and moving ways in his book, “Crossing the Threshold of Hope”. He notes the many common elements of belief between Christianity and what we would usually call “pagan” religions. > > “The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions,” he says, because we are “guided by the faith that God the Creator wants to save all humankind in Jesus Christ”. > > We don’t know how God does all this. But we do know, the pope continues, that “Christ came into the world for all these peoples. He redeemed them all and has his own ways of reaching each of them” in the present age of salvation history (pages 80-83). > > It’s a beautiful way of acknowledging that God has told us much about some details of his saving love for us; but he still “has his own ways” of doing things. If that is true anywhere, we would expect it to be true in his plan for the salvation of the world through Jesus Christ. Pope John Paul expresses clearly our belief that this is indeed the case. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/147 "2002-12-29T04:42:26Z")
> [@](#): > > did hear something about recently a Catholic priest saying that Jews could be ‘saved’ without Jesus, but I’m not sure if this is or has been a part of Catholic dogma. There have certainly been periods when the RCC failed to recognize the salvation of the Jews, but the current catechism specifically says: > [@](#): > > **839** “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”[sup]325[/sup] > > The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[sup]326[/sup] “the first to hear the Word of God.”[sup]327[/sup] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,[sup]328[/sup] “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”[sup]329[/sup] > [sup]325[/sup] _Lumen Gentium_ 16. > [sup]326[/sup] Cf. _Nostra aetate_ 4. > [sup]327[/sup] Roman Missal, Good Friday 13:General Intercessions,VI. > [sup]328[/sup] Rom 9:4-5. > [sup]329[/sup] Rom 11:29. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/148 "2002-12-29T05:21:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*What? You mean you folks _aren’t_ getting your monthly “We control the world, here’s your share” stipend? > > Huh. If I was you, I’d write and find out where that check’s been going. You could be due for some serious $$$$ when they finally get things straightened out. > > The address is: > > Learned Elders of Zion > 1 We Control the British Pound lane > Battle Creek, MI, 49014 > No, no need to thank me. Just buy me lunch if we ever meet at a Dopefest or something. > > 😛 > > Fenris \*\* Y’know, maybe it’s just coincidence, but I seem to have quite a few relatives at that address… And I assume that’s a Kosher lunch for you? ;j ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/149 "2002-12-29T06:57:24Z")
Fenris: I plugged that address into [mapquest.com](http://mapquest.com) and it pinpoints an address on the NE corner of East Van Buren Street & North East Capital Avenue. You wouldn’t happen to know what exactly is there, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/150 "2002-12-29T13:40:13Z")
**Monty** , I think it’s the Kellogg Headquarters. (Convoluted in-joke: People who believe in Jewish conspiracies are flakes, so I was gonna point 'em to the Kelloggs factory so they can be with others of their kind) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*Y’know, maybe it’s just coincidence, but I seem to have quite a few relatives at that address… > > And I assume that’s a Kosher lunch for you? ;j \*\* Some sable, a salt-bagel, a shmeer of cream cheese, a little onion. Plus a Dr. Brown’s Cream Soda\* would be good! 😃 Fenris \*Has anyone actually tried Dr. Brown’s CelRay Tonic? Every time I go to a deli, I look at it and think “Maybe next time.” and never do. \*Has anyone actually _tried_ Dr. Brown’s Celeray ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/151 "2002-12-29T14:11:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Has anyone actually tried Dr. Brown’s CelRay Tonic? Every time I go to a deli, I look at it and think “Maybe next time.” and never do. > > \*Has anyone actually tried Dr. Brown’s Celeray? Poison in a bottle, man. Resist that urge - Unless you absolutely _must_ know ;). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/152 "2002-12-29T20:33:03Z")
I _love_ CelRay! Try it, you’ll like it! It is fascinating that historically the Jews have been simulataneously accused of being the force behind capitalist conspiricies and behind the Leftist anticapitalist movements. Man we must get around! Stereotypes are based on rare actual contact. When the majority of a culture rarely sees Jews face to face in normal contexts, then the images that are very visible become reality for them … and these images include those that we Jews ourselves occassionally promote. The Jewish nebbish, the successful Jewish businessman, the self-depreciating jokes. The visible historical Jew also becomes the archetype in the minds of those without enough real life contact - the Rothschild, the Engle, the Einstein - all perpetuate the myth that there is something intrinsically “different” about Jews - and different is always feared, and feared is usually despised. ---
**Author:** ![Henry\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Henry\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry_B)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749/153 "2002-12-30T07:55:22Z")
If there is a God, which I will find out in due time, I think (S)He loves us all. Whatever we might call Her/Him. But, I am sure the God is not a money-fixer. Not for any race or belief. Every believer and no-believer has to make his/her own money through hard labour. Or have You seen money raining. I know many people that would be happy just for that kind of shower. So if we have different opinions in something - that is one thing, but if we hate each other - then we are just stupid. And if we believe that there is a good God, that loves us even if we wrong, and can’t learn the love even from him, then we are very stupid. And those who hates You or me, they are not maybe stupid, they are just - people? They will also find out in their due time if it was worth it. So Love and Peace, even for those that opposes these things. **P.S.** God has never told me what to eat? Actually he has never told me anything. My heart has anyhow told me that if I ever meet **Eva Luna** , I will buy her a dinner or two. I just do not know about this koscher/thing, but she will tell me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-hated-so-much/120749.md?page=7)