# Why are Jews still hated so much around the world outside of the U.S.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131 "2012-09-19T01:36:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/341 "2012-09-28T01:18:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There’s nothing contradictory here. Do you really expect people to believe this? Seriously? You’re honestly claiming that there’s no contradiction between Assad saying: “But we cannot accept [a demilitarized Golan] because we are sacrificing our sovereignty.” and Carter claiming that "President Assad informed me that he was willing to negotiate with Israel on the status of the Golan Heights. His proposal was that both sides withdraw from the international border, with a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor the neutral zone. " Do you really expect people not to understand that having “both sides withdraw from the international border, with a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor the neutral zone.” is creating a DMZ on the Golan and that just miiiiiight be contradicted by Assad saying he wouldn’t accept a demilitarized Golan? Weaksauce. > [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Carter is not anti-semitic, just stop I didn’t say Carter is an anti-Semite. You seem to think I did. That’s elucidative. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/342 "2012-09-28T01:22:50Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > Carter is not anti-semitic, just stop, you sound more ridiculous every time you post. Has Finn accused Carter of being an anti-Semite? If so, could you please quote me where he did? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/343 "2012-09-28T01:31:54Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Do you really expect people to believe this? Seriously? > You’re honestly claiming that there’s no contradiction between Assad saying: > > “But we cannot accept [a demilitarized Golan] because we are sacrificing our sovereignty.” and Carter claiming that "President Assad informed me that he was willing to negotiate with Israel on the status of the Golan Heights. His proposal was that both sides withdraw from the international border, with a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor the neutral zone. " > > Do you really expect people not to understand that having “both sides withdraw from the international border, with a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor the neutral zone.” is creating a DMZ on the Golan and that just miiiiiight be contradicted by Assad saying he wouldn’t accept a demilitarized Golan? > Weaksauce. “Withdraw from the international border” is not equivalent to “Create a DMZ”. I know how much you like to twist other people’s words to suit your conclusion, but you can’t pound a round peg into a square hole and then declare someone a liar. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/344 "2012-09-28T01:44:09Z")
**Untoward\_Parable** , you have been taking this entire discussion into the realm of the personal. Claims that other posters have made accusations of anti-semitism when no such statements can be found in their posts is liable to do more to incite anger than to move the discussion forward. Back off. = = = EVERYONE needs to concentrate more on the facts of the disputes and less on the personalities of one’s opponents. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/345 "2012-09-28T01:48:00Z")
> [@treis](#): > > “Withdraw from the international border” is not equivalent to “Create a DMZ”. You cherrypicked away every single word after “withdraw from the international border.” Naturally, of course, after “both sides withdraw from the international border,” then they establish a “neutral zone” that has “a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor [it]”, that’s a DMZ. That’s pretty _exactly the definition_ of a DMZ. So yes, Assad specifically said he wouldn’t agree to creating a DMZ, and Carter claimed that Assad agreed to creating a DMZ. You’re wrong, your objection is patently false and it’s based on ignorance of the vocabulary you’re using. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/346 "2012-09-28T01:48:26Z")
> [@treis](#): > > “Withdraw from the international border” is not equivalent to “Create a DMZ”. Perhaps not, but “both sides withdraw from the international border, with a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor the neutral zone” looks pretty much like a DMZ. So accusing Finn of “twisting” words is doing nothing to promote discussion, either. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/347 "2012-09-28T01:57:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Has Finn accused Carter of being an anti-Semite? > > If so, could you please quote me where he did? Meh. I am sure our mutual friend, the clearly unbiased **Finn** , is satisfied hurling all sorts of _other_ insults at him: > [@FinnAgain](#): > > …Of course, that also can lead to the question of just _why_ Carter makes so many basic factual errors which he did or should have known were false. But regardless of that reason, whether he’s a **liar** , or he’s **senile** , or he simply **doesn’t care whether or not what he says is true** , the fact that **each and every single error he makes serves to demonize Israel**? That does indeed prove that on that topic **he’s a bigot** who is **unwilling to let facts get in the way of his prejudice**. – my bolding. But certainly not “anti-Semite.” THAT would be over the top. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/348 "2012-09-28T01:57:55Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **Untoward\_Parable** , you have been taking this entire discussion into the realm of the personal. Claims that other posters have made accusations of anti-semitism when no such statements can be found in their posts is liable to do more to incite anger than to move the discussion forward. > > Back off. > > = = = > > EVERYONE needs to concentrate more on the facts of the disputes and less on the personalities of one’s opponents. > > [/Moderating] Quote from Finnagain “Or, ya know, because Carter’s book was objectively filled with errors, distortions and outright lies which Carter knew were lies because we have actual records of him being corrected and then later going on to use the same lies. Carter is a bigot and one who deliberately distorts information, when he doesn’t simply invent it, in order to support a bigoted narrative, which is that Israel and Israelis are evil and bad and Palestine and Palestinians are blameless and good.” This is the same and more than calling Carter an anti-semite. If it’s not I guess I don’t know what words mean. I did not divert the topic, I am merely defending myself and my position, the truth as I see it. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/349 "2012-09-28T01:59:49Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You cherrypicked away every single word after “withdraw from the international border.” > > Naturally, of course, after “both sides withdraw from the international border,” then they establish a “neutral zone” that has “a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor [it]”, that’s a DMZ. That’s pretty _exactly the definition_ of a DMZ. So yes, Assad specifically said he wouldn’t agree to creating a DMZ, and Carter claimed that Assad agreed to creating a DMZ. You’re wrong, your objection is patently false and it’s based on ignorance of the vocabulary you’re using. No, a DMZ is an area where no military activity is allowed. That is the exact definition of a demilitarized zone. Withdrawing from a combat line and allowing in observers, without a placing a blanket prohibition on military activitiy is like a DMZ, one might even call it a semi-DMZ. But clearly it is not a DMZ. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Perhaps not, but “both sides withdraw from the international border, with a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor the neutral zone” looks pretty much like a DMZ. > So accusing Finn of “twisting” words is doing nothing to promote discussion, either. > > [/Moderating] I’m sorry, but when did FinnAgain get his own special set of rules? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/350 "2012-09-28T02:11:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Perhaps not, but “both sides withdraw from the international border, with a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor the neutral zone” looks pretty much like a DMZ. A DMZ is an area that’s neutral and where both sides have withdrawn their forces. The only addendum here is that it’d be a DMZ monitored by foreign observers. But that’s a means of monitoring a DMZ, it doesn’t invalidate the fact that it’s still a DMZ. [ > [@](#): > > A demilitarized zone is generally understood to be an area, agreed upon between the parties to the conflict, which cannot be occupied or used for military purposes by any party to the conflict. Such a zone can be established in time of peace as well as in time of armed conflict. Article 60(3) of Additional Protocol I provides a blueprint for the terms of an agreement on a demilitarized zone, but any such agreement can be tailored to each specific situation, as Article 60 recognizes.[2] ]([http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1\_cha\_chapter11\_rule36](http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_cha_chapter11_rule36)) [ > [@](#): > > 1. The subject of such an agreement shall normally be any zone which fulfils the following conditions: > > (a) all combatants, as well as mobile weapons and mobile military equipment, must have been evacuated; > (b) no hostile use shall be made of fixed military installations or establishments; > (c) no acts of hostility shall be committed by the authorities or by the population; and > (d) any activity linked to the military effort must have ceased. ]([http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/full/470?opendocument](http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/full/470?opendocument)) A) Both sides will withdraw. B) The area will be a neutral zone. C) The area will be a neutral zone. D) Both sides will withdraw. It’s a DMZ. > [@treis](#): > > No, a DMZ is an area where no military activity is allowed. That is the exact definition of a demilitarized zone. Are you now _seriously_ arguing that Carter claimed Assad agreed to a “neutral zone” with “international monitors” and that “both sides” would “withdraw” , but one of them would leave military forces? Or that after it was a “neutral zone” one of them could put military forces back in? You are either wrong about the definition of "DMZ, “neutral” or “withdraw”. You are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/351 "2012-09-28T02:14:03Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > This is the same and more than calling Carter an anti-semite. If it’s not I guess I don’t know what words mean. Please re-read my Mod Note. Finn attacked Carter. You are making the discussion about Finn. My note was to back away from making the discussion about other posters. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/352 "2012-09-28T02:15:54Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I’m sorry, but when did FinnAgain get his own special set of rules? He has the same rules you do. You may challenge his definition, but attacking him is not promoting the discussion. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/353 "2012-09-28T02:18:53Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Are you now _seriously_ arguing that Carter claimed Assad agreed to a “neutral zone” with “international monitors” and that “both sides” would “withdraw” , but one of them would leave military forces? Or that after it was a “neutral zone” one of them could put military forces back in? You are either wrong about the definition of "DMZ, “neutral” or “withdraw”. > > You are wrong. No, as I clearly said a DMZ is an area where no military activity is allowed. Syria and Israel could have withdrawn the vast majority of their combat troops, left some observers and military watch posts. That would satisfy any definition of the word “withdraw”, yet not be a DMZ. One might call it a semi-DMZ, but a full DMZ it ain’t. If you want cites, here they are: > [@](#): > > An area from which military forces, operations, and installations are prohibited. > **[Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions](https://www.answers.com/redirectSearch?query=demilitarized-zone)** > > Answers is the place to go to get the answers you need and to ask the questions you want > [@](#): > > an area in which it is forbidden to station military forces or maintain military installations. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/demilitarized+zone](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/demilitarized+zone) > [@](#): > > In military terms, a demilitarized zone (DMZ) is an area, usually the frontier or boundary between two or more military powers (or alliances), where military activity is not permitted > **[Demilitarized zone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demilitarized_zone)** > > A demilitarized zone (DMZ or DZ) is an area in which treaties or agreements between states, military powers or contending groups forbid military installations, activities, or personnel. A DZ often lies along an established frontier or boundary between two or more military powers or alliances. A DZ may sometimes form a de facto international border, such as the Korean Demilitarized Zone. Other examples of demilitarized zones are a 14 km (8.7 mi) wide area between Iraq and Kuwait; Antarctica (pr Again, the important point here is that Carter doesn’t claim Assad agreed to a DMZ. Twisting his words to match where Assad says no to a DMZ doesn’t make him a liar. It’s even more ridiculous when Stein’s notes clearly state that Assad would agree to “semi-demilitarization”. You can’t simply ignore the definition of a DMZ, ignore Assad’s agreement to “semi-demilitarization”, and then trumpet how Carter was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/354 "2012-09-28T02:31:09Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Syria and Israel could have withdrawn the vast majority of their combat troops, left some observers and military watch posts. Not if we’re using the actual definition for “withdraw”. The specific claim Carter made was that “both sides withdraw from the international border.” Not that “Both sides would withdraw most but not all of their combat troops and they can leave some observes and military watch posts.” Just that both sides would withdraw. > [@treis](#): > > […] [Answers.com](http://Answers.com) and [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com)? Well, why didn’t you just say so? I mean, they’re not as strong as citing wikipedia but… > [@treis](#): > > [Demilitarized zone - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demilitarized_zone) …oh. > [@treis](#): > > Stein’s notes clearly state that Assad would agree to “semi-demilitarization”. Also not true. He stated that “In the past” they would have agreed to “semi-demilitarization”. Of course, “In the past” is rather obviously contrasted with “Today” and Assad clearly stated “we cannot accept [a DMZ] because we are sacrificing our sovereignty.” And, of course, Carter claimed that Assad agreed to a DMZ. Yes, despite your wikicite. Yes, despite your claim that both nations can somehow withdraw their forces but leave forces at the same time. Yes, despite your claim that a “neutral zone” is compatible with Assad’s statement that he absolutely refused to “[sacrifice Syria’s] sovereignty.” You are wrong on all counts, just admit it. Although I admit, I’d love to see you apply your logic to Israel at some point. “Israel invaded area X and hasn’t withdrawn.” “Yes it did. Sure, it’s got combat troops there. And observers. And military posts. But of course Israel has withdrawn.” ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/355 "2012-09-28T02:41:10Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Also not true. > He stated that “In the past” they would have agreed to “semi-demilitarization”. Of course, “In the past” is rather obviously contrasted with “Today” and Assad clearly stated “we cannot accept [a DMZ] because we are sacrificing our sovereignty.” Uh hu, and where does it say that he wouldn’t have accepted a “semi-demilitarization” on that day? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > And, of course, Carter claimed that Assad agreed to a DMZ. Sorry, but this is a flat out lie. Carter never claimed in that paragraph that Assad agreed to a DMZ. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yes, despite your wikicite. Yes, despite your claim that both nations can somehow withdraw their forces but leave forces at the same time. Yes, despite your claim that a “neutral zone” is compatible with Assad’s statement that he absolutely refused to “[sacrifice Syria’s] sovereignty.” You don’t understand the difference between “withdraw” and “withdraw every single troop and never come back”? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > You are wrong on all counts, just admit it. I’m not wrong on any counts. Unfortunately, you are now adding out and out lies to misrepresentations. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Although I admit, I’d love to see you apply your logic to Israel at some point. > “Israel invaded area X and hasn’t withdrawn.” > “Yes it did. Sure, it’s got combat troops there. And observers. And military posts. But of course Israel has withdrawn.” What do you think Assad meant by “semi-demilitarization”? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/356 "2012-09-28T02:50:19Z")
> [@treis](#): > > where does it say that he wouldn’t have accepted a “semi-demilitarization” on that day? It requires an understanding of what “in the past” means coupled with the use of the hypothetical “we should ask for a larger DMZ” and the clear statement that Assad absolutely would refuse to agree to a DMZ at all in the present. > [@treis](#): > > Carter never claimed in that paragraph that Assad agreed to a DMZ. We’ve been over this. You’re still wrong. Yes, even if you claim that you can “withdraw” your forces while leaving forces. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/357 "2012-09-28T02:51:12Z")
> [@treis](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > JC: Your severest critics know you keep your word—would you accept demilitarization of [the] Golan Heights? > > > > A: Today, Peres [Israel’s foreign minister] said Syria would accept [a] demilitarized Golan. But we cannot accept this because we are sacrificing our sovereignty. > > > > A: In the past we have said that things must be done mutually on both sides of the Golan—international forces, semi-demilitarization—on equal footing. If anyone can ask for additional measures, we should ask for a larger DMZ [demilitarized zone] from their part. > > Carter’s book says: > > > [@](#): > > > > When I visited Damascus in 1990, President Assad informed me that he was willing to negotiate with Israel on the status of the Golan Heights. His proposal was that both sides withdraw from the international border, with a small force of foreign observers and electronic devices to monitor the neutral zone. When I asked him if each nation would have to fall back an equal distance, he replied that Syria might move its troops farther from the border because of the terrain. He also gave me permission to report his proposal to Washington and to the Israelis, which I did in Jerusalem three days later. I think this may be clarified by a reference to [something Peres actually said about that time](http://www.nytimes.com/1990/03/19/world/syria-is-willing-to-talk-to-israel-carter-says.html), as reported in the 19 March 1990 _New York Times_: > [@](#): > > Mr. Peres told Parliament last week that he had ‘‘received information from an authoritative source that the Syrians are proposing peace negotiations, demilitarizing the Golan Heights.’’ It seems to me that Assad in that dialogue was rejecting any claim by Peres that Syria was **immediately agreeing to** or had **spontaneously proposed implementing** a demilitarized Golan. Syria, according to him, “couldn’t accept” that without “sacrificing sovereignty”. But Assad was apparently not saying that Syria could **never** accept a demilitarized Golan: on the contrary, he was saying that Syria was willing to talk about how to get “international forces, semi-demilitarization—on equal footing” in the Golan. Doesn’t that mean starting a demilitarization process in the Golan? And apparently including at some point a DMZ, since Assad says Syria should have the right to ask that the Israeli part of the DMZ would be bigger. If that’s a reasonable interpretation, then there isn’t really a contradiction between Assad’s remarks and Carter’s summary. Otherwise, I don’t understand what it would mean for Assad to say in one breath “we cannot accept this [demilitarized Golan]” and in the next breath to say that “semi-demilitarization” and “a larger DMZ from their part” could “be done mutually”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/358 "2012-09-28T03:07:35Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > He stated that “In the past” they would have agreed to “semi-demilitarization”. Of course, “In the past” is rather obviously contrasted with “Today” and Assad clearly stated “we cannot accept [a DMZ] because we are sacrificing our sovereignty.” Well, that’s another way of looking at it: you think Assad must have meant “We **would** have semi-demilitarized in the past but we’ll **never** accept it from now on”. Whereas I’m thinking he meant “We can’t accept a DMZ as an unconditional offer right now, contrary to what Peres was implying, but just as we’ve said in the past, we are willing to talk about how we could mutually move towards creating one eventually with the help of international observers.” I think that this is an interesting example of how two different possible interpretations can coexist, with neither one being indisputably true or obviously a lie as far as we can tell from the evidence. I doubt that you will agree, though. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/359 "2012-09-28T03:13:49Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If that’s a reasonable interpretation, then there isn’t really a contradiction between Assad’s remarks and Carter’s summary. Otherwise, I don’t understand what it would mean for Assad to say in one breath “we cannot accept this [demilitarized Golan]” and in the next breath to say that “semi-demilitarization” and “a larger DMZ from their part” could “be done mutually”. Even still, we don’t really know what “semi-demilitarization” means. But that doesn’t play into the Carter is a liar bit, so it’s ignored in favor of twisting words and fabricating meanings to support their side. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/360 "2012-09-28T03:15:14Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > It requires an understanding of what “in the past” means coupled with the use of the hypothetical “we should ask for a larger DMZ” and the clear statement that Assad absolutely would refuse to agree to a DMZ at all in the present. > > We’ve been over this. You’re still wrong. > Yes, even if you claim that you can “withdraw” your forces while leaving forces. You aren’t going to take a shot at defining “semi-demilitarized”? That’s unusual. Typically you love nitpicking the meaning of words. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131.md?page=19)