# Why are Jews still hated so much around the world outside of the U.S.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131 "2012-09-19T01:36:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/161 "2012-09-21T10:44:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The stories of the behaviour of Joshua and the like in the Book of Genesis have about as much relevance to understanding modern Jews as the story of Beowulf has in understanding modern Englishmen, or the Iliad in understanding modern Greeks (and both of those are more “modern”). You do realize that these events, assuming they are not entirely mythical, happened more than 3 thousand years ago, right? > > The notion that the Jews of today can be classified (or condemned) on the basis of Biblical events is, sadly, a cornerstone of certain forms of (mainly Christian) anti-Semitism. I agree,the majority of Jews and Palestinians want peace,but a few (like in many countries and cultures) do not.Just as there are many terrorists in this world,but the majority of people are(at least in my experience) good and peace loving. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/162 "2012-09-21T10:58:19Z")
> [@treis](#): > > The problem is that you are making the leap from a factual statement to antisemitism. For example, the chosen people bit. What other people in the bible has a promised land, or a special relationship with God, or will give rise to the messiah? It’s reasonable to conclude from those passages that the Jews are God’s chosen people. That’s the education that most people receive in the West today. Where am I supposed to have been exposed to the nuances of what different Jews consider that “chosen people” relationship to be? > > Or, for example, the idea that Jews killed Jesus. The story in the bible is that Jesus was brought before the Jewish High Priests, who sentenced him to death. Pontius Pilate felt he was innocent, but gave into the mob and had Jesus executed. So if someone asks me, “did Jews kill Jesus”, what am I supposed to say? The answer from the Bible is clearly, “Yes, they did”. If the purpose for Jesus being killed was to save all mankind, then no matter who killed him would be doing the world a favor, for with out his death(Which I don’t belive makes any sense) Christians or the rest of the world would spend an eternity in Hell a place of eternal suffering! Doesn’t sound to me like a loving ,caring Supreme Being who loves and loved all of mankind. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/163 "2012-09-21T11:04:53Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, this is an age old anti-Semitic slander. > “The Chosen People” means that we were chosen to _bear a burden_. Jewish theology holds that any gentile can be just as beloved in the eyes of God as the most observant Jew on the planet if the gentile simply follows the Noahide Laws. Traditionally, at least, though, it’s the same thing. Traditionally, in Judaism, the idea’s been “Jews have been chosen to bear a heavier burden and because we do this, we’re loved more by God when we do.” It’s not the idea that a Gentile who keeps the Noahide Laws isn’t loved by God. It’s that “the harder the task, the greater the reward for doing it” sort of thing. Modern Judaism, especially in the past hundred or so years, has gotten away from that interpretation, but it’s certainly a thing in Jewish theology, and you’ve even got somebody like Rabbi Halevi in the 12th century Kuzari: > [@](#): > > . . .Their lives fix the chronology from Adam to Noah, as well as from Noah to Abraham. There were some, however, among them who did not come under divine influence, as Terah, but his son Abraham was the disciple of his grandfather Eber, and was born in the lifetime of Noah. Thus the divine spirit descended from the grandfather to the grandchildren. Abraham represented the essence of Eber, being his disciple, and for this reason he was called Ibri. Eber represented the essence of Shem, the latter that of Noah. He inherited the temperate zone, the centre and principal part of which is Palestine, the land of prophecy. Japheth turned towards north, and Ham towards south. The essence of Abraham passed over to Isaac, to the exclusion of the other sons who were all removed from the land, the special inheritance of Isaac. The prerogative of Isaac descended on Jacob, whilst Esau was sent from the land which belonged to Jacob. The sons of the latter were all worthy of the divine influence, as well as of the country distinguished by the divine spirit. This is the first instance of the divine influence descending on a number of people, whereas it had previously only been vouchsafed to isolated individuals. . . . > > Al Khazari: Thus the human mind can accept the Law cheerfully and unhesitatingly, without doubting that a prophet would come to the oppressed and enslaved people, and promise them that they would at an appointed time, thus and without delay, be delivered from bondage. Moses led them to Palestine against seven nations, each of which was stronger than they were, assigned to each tribe its portion of the land before they reached it. All this was accomplished in the shortest space of time, and accompanied by miraculous events. This proves the omnipotence of the Sender as well as the greatness of the Messenger, and the high station of those who alone received this message. Had he said: ‘I was sent to guide the whole world in the right path,’ and would only have partially fulfilled his task, his message would have been deficient, since the divine will would not have been carried out completely. The perfection of his work was marred by the fact that his book was written in Hebrew, which made it unintelligible to the peoples of Sind, India, and Khazar. They would, therefore, be unable to practise his laws till some centuries had elapsed, or they had been prepared for it by changes of conquest, or alliance, but not through the revelation of that prophet himself, or of another who would stand up for him, and testify to his law. > > 1. The Rabbi: Moses invited only his people and those of his own tongue to accept his law, whilst God promised that there should at all times be prophets to expound his law. This He did so long as they found favour in His sight, and His presence was with them. > > 2. Al Khazari: Would it not have been better or more commensurate with divine wisdom, if all mankind had been guided in the true path? > > 3. The Rabbi: Or would it not have been best for all animals to have been reasonable beings? Thou hast, apparently, forgotten what we said previously concerning the genealogy of Adam’s progeny, and how the spirit of divine prophecy rested on one person, who was chosen from his brethren, and the essence of his father. It was he in whom this divine light was concentrated. He was the kernel, whilst the others were as shells which had no share in it. The sons of Jacob were, however, distinguished from other people by godly qualities, which made them, so to speak, an angelic caste. Each of them, being permeated by the divine essence, endeavoured to attain the degree of prophecy, and most of them succeeded in so doing. Those who were not successful strove to approach it by means of pious acts, sanctity, purity, and intercourse with prophets. Know that he who converses with a prophet experiences spiritualization during the time he listens to his oration. He differs from his own kind in the purity of soul, in a yearning for the [higher] degrees and attachment to the qualities of meekness and purity. This was a manifest proof to them, and a clear and convincing sign of reward hereafter. For the only result to be expected from this is that the human soul becomes divine, being detached from material senses, joining the highest world, and enjoying the vision of the divine light, and hearing the divine speech. Such a soul is safe from death, even after its physical organs have perished. If thou, then, findest a religion the knowledge and practice of which assists in the attainment of this degree, at the place pointed out and with the conditions laid down by it, this is beyond doubt the religion which insures the immortality of the soul after the demise of the body. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/164 "2012-09-21T11:06:23Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t think the English consider Beowulf to be their holy book, so I’m not sure this is quite applicable. > > I think you underestimate the impact of the Bible on modern Jews. I mean, the obvious example is Israel. It wasn’t founded where it was by chance. It’s where it is today because that is the land promised to Jews in the Bible. Hell, even today some Jews even use it as justification for why they should take more land. > > Ok, but when the ADL asks whether people agree with the statement: “Jews are responsible for the death of Christ.” It’s like one of those questions designed to trip you up on the SAT. They’re clearly gunning for the yes answer to use as evidence of antisemitism. Isn’t the words:" he suffered under Pontius Pilate" part of the creed? Wasn’t Pilate a Roman? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/165 "2012-09-21T11:17:02Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Jews are hated in Thailand? The Philippines? Sri Lanka? China? Japan? Iceland? South Africa? Are they hated in Pakistan though? Where does that come from? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/166 "2012-09-21T11:37:19Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > No problems, Bro. You guys are good with me. 😉 I just wanted to point out that Israelis have substantially the same reputation in Indian holiday spots as they do in Thailand, and for substantially the same reasons. Israelis are good with me too, but maybe a few cultural sensitisation sessions may be in order before they get discharged from mandatory national service? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/167 "2012-09-21T12:55:39Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I think he means something like drunken shrimp, where you take a live shrimp, put it in alcohol to stun it, and then eat it alive. And I’ve got to think something like that is a a pretty clear violation of the Noahide laws. Yeah, that’s not ok by the Noahide laws. I didn’t know people did that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/168 "2012-09-21T13:04:42Z")
As always when this “chosen people” stuff comes up, I am astonished, even gobsmacked that Judaism is the only religion where adherents think they have a special relationship with a deity. Christians, Muslims, everyone else realizes their faith has nothing extra going for it, and all other religions are equal to or maybe even superior to theirs. So naturally, everyone hates them Jews. _Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics, And the Catholics hate the Protestants, And the Hindus hate the Moslems, And everybody hates the Jews._ - Tom Lehrer ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/169 "2012-09-21T13:06:51Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Let’s review Yes, let’s. Your defense of anti-Semitism isn’t very strong, so you’re continually changing the subject and trying to go on a new tangent of attack. Let’s get back to an issue you’re still ignoring, your metric of the “reasonableness” of this anti-Semitic slander. (As cited the verbiage is in accord with common usage, if you really want to split hairs, feel free to skip any semantic nitpicking and substitute a word that means a false claim which is damaging to the reputation of someone). You’ve ignored this twice I think, and it would be nice if you finally at least address it, if only to admit you’re wrong. > [@](#): > > **Of course, your claim that they have a reasonable basis for that understanding is more than a bit odd. “A bronze age book says something, therefore millenia later, disparate traditions of people who follow multiple sects based on that and other books, oral tradition as well as contemporary interpretations thereof, must believe exactly what it says.” That’s reasonable?** You’ve ignored this massive gap in your argument multiple times. With your ‘logic’, it would be “reasonable” to conclude that Jews keep slaves or at least really want to, since the Torah allows for slavery. That Jews murder other Jews who work on the Sabbath. That Jews believe if their daughter is raped that they must offer her up in marriage to the rapist. That if an angry mob knocks at your house at night, wanting your guests, you should instead offer up your virgin daughters to be raped. And so on. Ironically enough, the only one you’ve chosen to champion as being a totally reasonable interpretation is the anti-Semitic trope with centuries of baggage. Funny, that. > [@Spoke](#): > > Did somebody say something about the fallacy of composition being the basis of bigotry? You neither understand the argument nor the fallacy of composition. And, interestingly enough, you have again changed the subject from how Treis was using the fallacies of composition and division to claim that he understood modern Judaism better than modern Jews, and to argue for why the actions of a lunatic fringe could be generalized to “modern Jews” in general. Oddly enough, not only did you not take Treis to task for such an odd view, you’ve used it as a springboard to attack someone who’s pointing out that using the fallacies of composition and division to paint an ethnic group in a negative light might just be a poor idea. Curiouser and curiouser. > [@Spoke](#): > > You don’t say they have a misunderstanding of modern Jewish beliefs. You accuse them of “slander,” and now of now of much worse. You are engaging in a highly imaginative bit of Make Believe here. I pointed out that their error was not as all reasonable. Your claim that I’m “accusing them of much worse” is, apparently, something you’ve simply invented out of nothingness at all. What I actually said was that it was completely reasonable to ascribe ill will to those who use “the Chosen People” as a slur, and that even for the other folks, it was not at all reasonable to assume that a millenia-old-book was still followed to the letter. Especially since, like you, modern Christians realize that Jews don’t actually keep slaves like they’re allowed to in the Torah, nor do we pine for that ability since the Emancipation Proclamation. Now, you know this, as you deliberately cherrypicked only the part where I was talking about those will ill will and deliberately neglected to include the next ines. > [@](#): > > And really, what could be less reasonable than ascribing some sort of ill will to people who use, or promote the use of “the Chosen People” as a slur to talk about how Jews are arrogant, clannish, etc… ? That’s totally unreasonable.\*\* Now, reasonable stuff? Reading a book thousands of years old and assuming that people not only still follow it to the letter but believe everything it says they should believe, too.\*\* Either you will retract your errors in your next post, or change the subject to something new and try to go on the attack. Your call. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/170 "2012-09-21T14:30:13Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > People keep making this point but I don’t think it applies to Jews versus British people. I am not Jewish but I did go to a heavily Jewish university and have lots of Jewish friends and some Jewish family. I have never understood Judaism that well intuitively despite trying to learn more but I have learned it is a very historically based religion. Most things that practicing Jews engage in are based on things that happened thousands of years ago. That applies to major holidays, the teaching of Hebrew, the reasons for the existence of Israel today, and is even related to the reasons for kosher culinary practices. The same isn’t true for for a quasi-ethic group like British people. It seems to me, as an outsider, that the fundamentals of Judaism are based on ancient history and that is by design. See, herein lies the problem - non-Jews telling Jews what Jews base their beliefs on. It is certainly true that the beliefs of Jews are rooted in the OT. What non-Jews do not get is the significance in Jewish thought of the oral law in interpreting the stuff in the OT. The religion in the OT is radically different from “modern” Judaism - even (sepecially) the Judaism of the most Orthodox sort. If you want to understand that Judaism, you need to study the Talmud, not just the OT. If you studied the OT, you would believe that Judaism was a centralized religion, based on a heriditary caste of Priests, whose rituals were all centred on a Temple in Jerusalem. The OT does not veben mention the existence of Rabbis. The fundamentals of Judaism are rooted in ancient history, certainly. You mention holidays. Does the fact that Dec. 25 is the date of Christmas, and this is “rooted” in the Roman Saturnalia, and the fact that the high priest of the Catholics - the Pope - is based in Rome, mean that one can understand modern Christianity by popular accounts of the life of Augustus and Caligua? No, most people understand that while “Roman” Catholicism is firmly based in history, specifically that of the Roman Empire, it is its own creation. You mention the state of Israel. Would it shock you to learn that most early Zionists were hard athiests and socialists, and that the most religious Jews despised Zionism? And that these hard athiests adopted Hebrew not because of religious reasons (they were not religious and religious Jews largely regarded secular use of Hebrew as blasphemous), but as a deliberate anachronism - because it harked back to a legendary heroic age? This is exactly like other “quasi-ethnic” groups in the British Isles - consider Welsh nationalists reviving/encouraging use of Welsh. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/171 "2012-09-21T14:40:28Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t think the English consider Beowulf to be their holy book, so I’m not sure this is quite applicable. > > I think you underestimate the impact of the Bible on modern Jews. I mean, the obvious example is Israel. It wasn’t founded where it was by chance. It’s where it is today because that is the land promised to Jews in the Bible. Hell, even today some Jews even use it as justification for why they should take more land. As noted, early Zionists were not religious. Rather, they were athiests, socialists, and ethno-nationalists. The choice of Israel was based on historical and not religious factors (and in fact early Zionists did consider other places! For example, Uganda was proposed). > [@](#): > > Ok, but when the ADL asks whether people agree with the statement: “Jews are responsible for the death of Christ.” It’s like one of those questions designed to trip you up on the SAT. They’re clearly gunning for the yes answer to use as evidence of antisemitism. That’s because, traditionally, the charge of “deicide” was a standard trope of Jew-hatred. The notion being that present-day Jews bear the “guilt”. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/172 "2012-09-21T15:28:37Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > As noted, early Zionists were not religious. Rather, they were athiests, socialists, and ethno-nationalists. > > The choice of Israel was based on historical and not religious factors (and in fact early Zionists did consider other places! For example, Uganda was proposed). And Uganda was rejected mostly because it was not the Holy Land. Whether or not early Zionist were religious, the movement was based on returning Jews to the land they were promised in the Bible. If the story of the Bible didn’t revolve around the Jewish people and their promised land, would any Jew know after 2000 years where their homeland was? Probably not. > [@Malthus](#): > > That’s because, traditionally, the charge of “deicide” was a standard trope of Jew-hatred. The notion being that present-day Jews bear the “guilt”. A good question would clearly ask it. “Do Jews today bear guilt for the death of Jesus?” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/173 "2012-09-21T15:38:14Z")
Yes. And I’m sorry, dammit. Can we move on? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/174 "2012-09-21T16:05:17Z")
> [@treis](#): > > And Uganda was rejected mostly because it was not the Holy Land. Whether or not early Zionist were religious, the movement was based on returning Jews to the land they were promised in the Bible. If the story of the Bible didn’t revolve around the Jewish people and their promised land, would any Jew know after 2000 years where their homeland was? Probably not. Not because it was not “the Holy land” exactly (athiests, remember?), but because it lacked historical resonance for the Jews as a people. You are conflating a purely religious notion of God’s Promise with the rather more secular issues of ethnic nationalism. What you should understand is that the Bible is at the very same time a source of religious inspiration and a sort of history-and-mythology, all in one package. You don’t need to be religious to be inspired by the historical bits (many Israelis are not religious, but most know the Bible stories). Again, in point of fact most highly religious Jews were horrified by Zionism, and many oppose it to this day. You will _seriously_ mis-understand Zionism unless you comprehend that it fits better within the framework of European nationalism, than that of a religious revival movement. > [@](#): > > A good question would clearly ask it. “Do Jews today bear guilt for the death of Jesus?” Seems to me that they _are_ clearly asking it. “Jews are responsible for the death of Christ.”. Note the use of the present tense. How is that in any way ambiguous? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/175 "2012-09-21T16:37:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Not because it was not “the Holy land” exactly (athiests, remember?), but because it lacked historical resonance for the Jews as a people. > > You are conflating a purely religious notion of God’s Promise with the rather more secular issues of ethnic nationalism. > > What you should understand is that the Bible is at the very same time a source of religious inspiration and a sort of history-and-mythology, all in one package. You don’t need to be religious to be inspired by the historical bits (many Israelis are not religious, but most know the Bible stories). > > Again, in point of fact most highly religious Jews were horrified by Zionism, and many oppose it to this day. And many think that Israel should annex all of the land promised to them in the Bible. This isn’t an “or” question. I’m sure some Zionist were motivated completely by historical reasons, some completely by religious, and vast majority fell somewhere in between. Besides, you can’t separate history from religion in this case. The reason Israel has a historical resonance is because of religion. > [@Malthus](#): > > Seems to me that they _are_ clearly asking it. “Jews are responsible for the death of Christ.”. Note the use of the present tense. How is that in any way ambiguous? If you study for the SAT these are known as one word wrong answers. When people speak, they don’t always use correct grammar, so we have a habit of filling in the correct word for the incorrect word. The test writers use that to trip you up. Besides, there are two clear ambiguities in the sentence. “Jews” can refer to all Jews or the ones that committed a specific act. Consider these two sentences: “Muslims believe in Allah” and “Muslims attacked a Hindu temple”. Same word, but a different scope. Then the world responsible has two meanings. “Increased CO2 in the atmosphere is responsible for global warming”. “The criminal will be held responsible for his actions”. The first usage is simply a cause, while the second implies accountability. The point isn’t whether a grammatical dissection renders the question invalid. Or even if people were confused by the question. The point is that when you ask questions on a survey, the way you phrase the question is very important. In this case, it’s clear that the ADL asked about things and used phrasing intended to get the response they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/176 "2012-09-21T16:57:30Z")
> [@treis](#): > > And many think that Israel should annex all of the land promised to them in the Bible. This isn’t an “or” question. I’m sure some Zionist were motivated completely by historical reasons, some completely by religious, and vast majority fell somewhere in between. Besides, you can’t separate history from religion in this case. The reason Israel has a historical resonance is because of religion. What you are missing is the history of Zionism. It was not just “some Zionists” who where motivated by ethno-nationalism rather than religion - it was pretty well _every_ major Zionist figure. Religious zionists who wish to annex all the land of Zion based on religious motives are a vanishingly tiny minority of Israelis (albeit a vocal and troublesome one). They were even less significant in the founding days of Zionism than they are now. > [@](#): > > If you study for the SAT these are known as one word wrong answers. When people speak, they don’t always use correct grammar, so we have a habit of filling in the correct word for the incorrect word. The test writers use that to trip you up. > > Besides, there are two clear ambiguities in the sentence. “Jews” can refer to all Jews or the ones that committed a specific act. Consider these two sentences: “Muslims believe in Allah” and “Muslims attacked a Hindu temple”. Same word, but a different scope. > > Then the world responsible has two meanings. “Increased CO2 in the atmosphere is responsible for global warming”. “The criminal will be held responsible for his actions”. The first usage is simply a cause, while the second implies accountability. > > The point isn’t whether a grammatical dissection renders the question invalid. Or even if people were confused by the question. The point is that when you ask questions on a survey, the way you phrase the question is very important. In this case, it’s clear that the ADL asked about things and used phrasing intended to get the response they wanted. I honestly do not believe for a second that any significant number of people would mistake what this question was about. Your theory requires that the reader be both ignorant of English grammar in that they do not understand the present tense, and ignorant of the long-standing trope that Jews are collectively to blame for Jesus’ death. It is clear what the questioners “wanted”, and that was to find out how many believe in the validity of the trope. Could the question have been phrased differently? Of course. Any question can. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/177 "2012-09-21T17:09:38Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I honestly do not believe for a second that any significant number of people would mistake what this question was about. Your theory requires that the reader be both ignorant of English grammar in that they do not understand the present tense, and ignorant of the long-standing trope that Jews are collectively to blame for Jesus’ death. It is clear what the questioners “wanted”, and that was to find out how many believe in the validity of the trope. > > Could the question have been phrased differently? Of course. Any question can. _Shrug_ I take that as an ignorance of survey methods. You can get significantly different results based on the questions you ask and how you phrase them. It’s clear that this survey was gunning for a particular result, and can’t be looked on as a reliable indication of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/178 "2012-09-21T18:16:00Z")
> [@treis](#): > > _Shrug_ I take that as an ignorance of survey methods. You can get significantly different results based on the questions you ask and how you phrase them. It’s clear that this survey was gunning for a particular result, and can’t be looked on as a reliable indication of anything. Yes, I quite agree “You can get significantly different results based on the questions you ask and how you phrase them.”. Other than your bald assertion, dubious for the reasons I have stated, I do not see any proof that this question is a prime example of that, as you allege. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/179 "2012-09-21T20:13:05Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Yes, I quite agree “You can get significantly different results based on the questions you ask and how you phrase them.”. Other than your bald assertion, dubious for the reasons I have stated, I do not see any proof that this question is a prime example of that, as you allege. I gave you three specific problems with the question: (1) “One word wrong” (2) Plural nouns have ambiguous meanings (3) Responsible has various meanings ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131/180 "2012-09-21T20:31:43Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I gave you three specific problems with the question: > > (1) “One word wrong” > > (2) Plural nouns have ambiguous meanings > > (3) Responsible has various meanings The latter two are quite irrelevant. It matters not how “responsible” is interpreted and whether “Jews” is ambiguously applied to some Jews or all. The significant point is that Jews _today_ are in no way, form or degree, whether only some or all, “responsible”, in either the moral or causitive sense, for the death of Jesus - except of course in the opinions of those who hold to the (widespread) anti-Semitic trope. I do not see this in any way a “trick question”. Two of your “problems” are not problems in this context, and the third is a mere assertion that people are likely to be confused and not understand the use of the present tense in a sentence. An assertion for which you offer no proof. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-jews-still-hated-so-much-around-the-world-outside-of-the-u-s/635131.md?page=10)