# Why are Judaism & Islam never mocked or impugned in mainstream movies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-judaism-islam-never-mocked-or-impugned-in-mainstream-movies/500537 "2009-06-22T01:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-judaism-islam-never-mocked-or-impugned-in-mainstream-movies/500537/81 "2009-06-24T00:25:18Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > There were other characters–particularly the ones played by Mandy Moore and Heather Materazzo–who were caricatures of the less pleasing side of mainstream Christianity (The pious bully and the pious homophobe). The presence of the likable characters doesn’t erase the presence of the mocking/impugning ones. For the purposes of this thread, I’d say that they do. By having both likable and unlikable Christian characters, the film establishes that likablilty and unlikability are traits independent of Christianity. These characters aren’t impugning Christianity, they’re just antagonists who happen to be Christian. You are effectively arguing that any movie that does not present Christians as flawless is automatically impugning Christianity. Which makes it impossible to make a good Christian movie, as Christian philosophy hinges on the idea that everyone is inherently flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-judaism-islam-never-mocked-or-impugned-in-mainstream-movies/500537/82 "2009-06-24T00:26:53Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > It and **Robin Hood** were weak examples, but the clerics they depict were in a similar vein to, say, the Jewish moneymen in **Mo’ Better Blues**. Peter Cook was doing the Anglican equivalent of _Oy vey iz mir._ Not the focus of the film, but an undeniable element therein. Anglicans stereotypically lisp? Come on. And what makes you think he was meant to be Anglican rather than Catholic? Since _The Princess Bride_ was explicitly NOT set in England it wouldn’t make much sense to have the priest be CoE. The fictional kingdom name of “Florin” evokes Florence, Italy and the florin coin that was its currency. Italy is a predominantly Catholic country. The other book Goldman wrote under the name of the fictional Florinese author S. Morgenstern (_The Silent Gondoliers_) is set in Venice, further suggesting a link between Florin and Italy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-judaism-islam-never-mocked-or-impugned-in-mainstream-movies/500537/83 "2009-06-24T00:29:38Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Is there a movie where he’s depicted that way, though? Not just as a drunk I mean, but as specifically staging mock Christian rituals in order to drink the sacramental wine. I sure haven’t seen one like that, although I definitely haven’t seen every Robin Hood movie. I seem to recall that the Friar in the Costner Robin Hood joked about being drunk on sacramental wine. Rewatching the movie to confirm this is, however, a sacrifice I am unwilling to make for the sake of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-judaism-islam-never-mocked-or-impugned-in-mainstream-movies/500537/84 "2009-06-24T00:36:38Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Anglicans stereotypically lisp? Come on. And what makes you think he was meant to be Anglican rather than Catholic? Since _The Princess Bride_ was explicitly NOT set in England it wouldn’t make much sense to have the priest be CoE. **The Princess Bride** is a fairy tale, not an historical document. Like all fairy tales, it’s supposed to represent something contemporary even though it’s set in the distant past. Sorry if a tedious, lisping, marbles-in-the mouth English cleric sounds like a reach for you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-judaism-islam-never-mocked-or-impugned-in-mainstream-movies/500537/85 "2009-06-24T00:37:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I seem to recall that the Friar in the Costner Robin Hood joked about being drunk on sacramental wine. Rewatching the movie to confirm this is, however, a sacrifice I am unwilling to make for the sake of this thread. Just remember Alan Rickman’s in it. And he’s awesome. “Because it’s dull, you twit! It’ll hurt more!” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-judaism-islam-never-mocked-or-impugned-in-mainstream-movies/500537/86 "2009-06-24T00:50:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Just remember Alan Rickman’s in it. And he’s awesome. “Because it’s dull, you twit! It’ll hurt more!” And his rape scene is _hi_-larious! I think I’ll pass. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-judaism-islam-never-mocked-or-impugned-in-mainstream-movies/500537/87 "2009-06-24T01:34:15Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > **The Princess Bride** is a fairy tale, not an historical document. Like all fairy tales, it’s supposed to represent something contemporary even though it’s set in the distant past. And you think that “something contemporary” is Anglican bishops? Again, come on. > [@](#): > > _Sorry if a tedious, lisping, marbles-in-the mouth English cleric sounds like a reach for you._ I am totally unfamiliar with any such stereotype of English clerics. As an American I might simply be ignorant of them, but so would most of the film’s target audience. Since the author of both the novel and the screenplay is a Jew from Chicago I somehow doubt he’d be familiar with or have reason to want to spoof the stereotypical foibles of Church of England clergymen either. The scene definitely wasn’t improvised by Peter Cook for the film, as it appears almost verbatim, complete with speech impediment, in the original novel (published 15 years before the movie was made). So yeah, I have to say it sounds like something of a reach. But even if you’re right and William Goldman did for some reason want to poke fun at these supposedly stereotypical speech patterns of CoE clergy, that 1) has nothing to do with any Christian belief or ritual and 2) is balanced by the stereotypically Jewish speech patterns of Miracle Max and Valerie. So _The Princess Bride_ is, at worst, quite evenhanded in the way it deals with religious-linked cultural stereotypes. Judging from my own film-watching experience the examples people have been able to come up with in this thread, it seems clear enough to me that Christianity is very rarely the butt of jokes or derision in mainstream Hollywood films, Judaism is rarely attacked but is often the subject of humor, and Islam is rarely joked about but is nearly always portrayed in a very negative manner. The OP had things completely backwards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-judaism-islam-never-mocked-or-impugned-in-mainstream-movies/500537.md?page=4)