# Why are Klingon weapons so ridiculous? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249 "2005-11-29T19:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/41 "2005-11-30T18:44:42Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > The idea of bladed weapons as being practical in the age of gunpowder is silly enough but in the age of phasers? If you beam over to my ship armed with a sword I’m just going to shoot you with my phaser. What kind of losses must the Klingons take when fighting other warp level cultures? Actually, one might make a case for the relevance of bladed weapons in spacewar . . . In John Maddox Roberts’ SF novel _Cestus Dei_ ([http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0523485840/qid=1133376053/sr=8-1/ref=sr\_8\_xs\_ap\_i1\_xgl14/102-8357406-3872927?n=507846&s=books&v=glance](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0523485840/qid=1133376053/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-8357406-3872927?n=507846&s=books&v=glance)), there’s a scene where the heros board a pirate spaceship and engage the pirates with swords, etc. – which is implied to be the usual tactic in such situations – simply because a projectile weapon might punch a hole in the hull and kill everybody. (As might a blaster or phaser, I suppose.) ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/42 "2005-11-30T18:48:31Z")
So with the light sabre what excatly stops the light … or the energy or whatever the hell it is from continuing upinto the stratoshpere or through the roof? What makes the stuff hold its shape aside from the collective willing suspension of disbelief of the fans? As far as Klingon weapons. Well the Bathleth seem designed for looks rather than practicality. Mind you one could try to argue that in a hand held primative weapon melee it could be used more as a defensive weapon to allow the skilled carrier to close in on his opponent deflecting sword blows for a close hand to had attack. It is borad long and could cover a good areat from glacing blows. though one good stab and fergedaboudit. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/43 "2005-11-30T18:49:31Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > It’ll be the lightsaber. The guy with the lightsaber is a Jedi and thus has enormously better reflexes than the guy with the blaster; he’ll have chopped your arms off twice before you press the trigger. By that line of thinking, the Jedi will win any one-on-one duel with a non-Jedi, just by his own superior skill/prowess/Force-groktitude. But even a Jedi could **still** do more and surer damage, at less personal risk, with a blaster than with a lightsaber. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/44 "2005-11-30T18:54:15Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > So with the light sabre what excatly stops the light … or the energy or whatever the hell it is from continuing upinto the stratoshpere or through the roof? What > makes the stuff hold its shape aside from the collective willing suspension of disbelief of the fans? The plasma or whatever is held by a magnetic field and moves in a stretched out torus. IIRC It moves up on the outside, reaches the tip and flows back toward the handle on the inside of the torus. A geekier friend than I (he once showed me a copy of the itemized bill for what Han owes Jabba), told me that in one of the novels Luke does meet a Jedi who has tweaked his lightsaber for adjustable blade length. > [@](#): > > As far as Klingon weapons. Well the Bathleth seem designed for looks rather than practicality. Mind you one could try to argue that in a hand held primative weapon melee it could be used more as a defensive weapon to allow the skilled carrier to close in on his opponent deflecting sword blows for a close hand to had attack. It is borad long and could cover a good areat from glacing blows. though one good stab and fergedaboudit. Again, I say that offensive capability increases when the batleth is used one-handed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/45 "2005-11-30T19:06:03Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > The idea of bladed weapons as being practical in the age of gunpowder is silly enough but in the age of phasers? If you beam over to my ship armed with a sword I’m just going to shoot you with my phaser. What kind of losses must the Klingons take when fighting other warp level cultures? My understanding is that Klingons kept the bladed weapons for ceremonial purposes. > [@](#): > > Looks way cool, don’t it? But, what is the purpose of those prongs? What do they do that a broad static hilt-guard couldn’t do? It seems to me that there are several real knife and sword designs with such prongs. They’re for catching the opponent’s blade. As to why they are poppable – ease of storage perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/46 "2005-11-30T19:12:05Z")
Oh, and the qutluch - I imagine it works pretty much like a regular dagger, except that the irregular forms make the wounds more irregular, and, thus nastier. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/47 "2005-11-30T19:14:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, one might make a case for the relevance of bladed weapons in spacewar . . . ) Perhaps, but that doesn’t seem applicable to the technology available in Star Trek. Any way, I don’t see why the can’t design bullets that aren’t designed to penetrate hulls, we have glaser rounds these days I imagine we’ll have something better in another cenutry. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/48 "2005-11-30T19:17:09Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > My understanding is that Klingons kept the bladed weapons for ceremonial purposes. In TNG I only remember the bladed weapons being used when fighting a duel of some sort. In DS9 it was firmly established that bladed weapons, and disruptors I’m sure, were used during boarding actions. Ultimately I guess the answer is that it looks cool and it’s exciting to see fisticuffs instead of shoot outs. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/49 "2005-11-30T19:20:52Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > So with the light sabre what excatly stops the light … or the energy or whatever the hell it is from continuing upinto the stratoshpere or through the roof? What > makes the stuff hold its shape aside from the collective willing suspension of disbelief of the fans? In his **Long Sun** series, **Gene Wolfe** described a hilted weapon he called an Azoth that was very much like what you describe. Unlike a light saber, the “blade” wasn’t visible. It did attenuate at some point well short of the stratosphere but was effectively a ranged weapon. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/50 "2005-11-30T19:55:37Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > In TNG I only remember the bladed weapons being used when fighting a duel of some sort. In DS9 it was firmly established that bladed weapons, and disruptors I’m sure, were used during boarding actions. Ultimately I guess the answer is that it looks cool and it’s exciting to see fisticuffs instead of shoot outs. > > Marc I just realized another reason. Internal sensors can easily detect phaser or disrupter fire. They don’t pick up stabbings or beheadings. But I agree that Klingons primarily retain archaic weapons due to honor. If an opponent charges you with a battleth and you shoot him, other Klingons will view you as a dishonorable coward. It should also be noted that Keh’less, the god/hero of the Klingons was said to have made the first battleth by plunging a lock of his hair into a stream of lava. So, the battleth is carried in emulation of him. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/51 "2005-11-30T20:47:19Z")
[starwars hijack] > [@bouv](#): > > **DocCathode** pretty much nailed it. In addition to the technology being a secret, you pretty much have to have some knowledge of the force to use one well. Yeah, you could probably use a small “lightdagger” to do simple welding and cutting, but why bother when you have plasma welders and vibro blades that work just as well for that task, have less danger, and won’t make a pack of Jedi hunt you down to get the technology back. And yes, building a lightsaber is one of the final tasks to becoem a Jedi (though different sources seem to contradict when this happens. I have seen it happens when you become a Padawan, other times when you are done with being a Padawan and become a Jedi Knight.) > > Interesting fact: Han Solo is the only non-Jedi character ever depicted in the movies to use a lightsaber (the only other time a charater comes close is Luke in ANH turning on Anakin’s lightsaber. But a) Luke becomes a Jedi later abd b) he didn’t really use it, just flipped the on button.) General Grevious is some kind of cyborg who uses lightsabres pretty effectively but doesn’t demonstrate any knowledge of The Force. And I can’t imagine how you would keep such technology secret. Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak, so don’t you think someone like Watto would have gotten the plans and built at least one? I would think that every technician, repairman, mechanic, soldier, etc would carry a little lightsabre-type utility knife on his belt.[/starwars hijack] ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/52 "2005-11-30T21:11:26Z")
> [@BMax](#): > > [starwars hijack] > General Grevious is some kind of cyborg who uses lightsabres pretty effectively but doesn’t demonstrate any knowledge of The Force. I’d say that Greivous uses them pretty ineffectively. He has cybernetic reflexes, four lightsabers, and he gets his butt kicked. Compare him to Dooku, who defeats Obi Wan and takes off one of Annakin’s arms. Compare him to Darth Maul who holds off Qui-Gon and Obi Wan, manages to seperate them and kills Qui-Gon. Greivous is stronger and faster than Obi Wan. He has four arms and can use four lightsabers at once. Beyond that, he’s got nothing. Greivous has no skill at swordsmanship. IMO The only reason he can use a lightsaber without killing himself is that his prosthetic body gives him sufficient fine control and speed. > [@](#): > > And I can’t imagine how you would keep such technology secret. Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak, so don’t you think someone like Watto would have gotten the plans and built at least one? I would think that every technician, repairman, mechanic, soldier, etc would carry a little lightsabre-type utility knife on his belt.[/starwars hijack] Idunno. I seem to have heard something about a lightsaber needing to be charged through the Force powers of the maker. WAG There may be laws against it. While the Jedi wouldn’t kill anybody massproducing lightsabers, the Sith sure would. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/53 "2005-11-30T21:16:54Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’d say that Greivous uses them pretty ineffectively. He has cybernetic reflexes, four lightsabers, and he gets his butt kicked. Apparently, there had been several situations in which his butt had not been kicked. That accounted for the multiple lightsabres in his possession. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/54 "2005-11-30T21:20:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Good point – but I recall a TNG episode, “Reunion,” where Worf, armed with a bat’leth, duels Duras, armed with some kind of longsword, and Worf **wins.** I don’ buy it. A few facts that affected the outcome of that fight: Worf is some sort of bat’leth black-belt, Duras was a cowardly, lazy warrior more used to backstabbing than fair duels, and Duras had just killed Worf’s mate (so Worf was mad enough he’d have kept fighting for 15 minutes after his own death, if necessary). It sucks to be Duras in light of these facts. Personally, if someone were trying to kill me with a sword and I wasn’t too interested in killing them back, a bat’leth would come in handy. I think it could parry swordstrokes much better than a sword does, as long as you have the strength and endurance to use it. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/55 "2005-11-30T21:57:12Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Apparently, there had been several situations in which his butt had not been kicked. That accounted for the multiple lightsabres in his possession. Unsupported assumption. Unless they showed those fights in the Clone Wars cartoons (I still haven’t seen them), we don’t know for sure how Greivous got those lightsabers. He may have taken them in duels. He may have used a BFG or droid army to kill Jedis and take their lightsabers. They may have been gifts given to him by Darth Sidious, Darth Tyrannus or somebody else in recognition of his continuing success and loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![Sweetums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sweetums](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweetums)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/56 "2005-11-30T22:15:53Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Unsupported assumption. Unless they showed those fights in the Clone Wars cartoons (I still haven’t seen them), we don’t know for sure how Greivous got those lightsabers. He may have taken them in duels. He may have used a BFG or droid army to kill Jedis and take their lightsabers. They may have been gifts given to him by Darth Sidious, Darth Tyrannus or somebody else in recognition of his continuing success and loyalty. ``` The Clone Wars cartoons do indeed show Greivous kicking Jedi butt. Also, dosen't he make at least a passing reference in the movie to his collection of sabers being trophies of past battles? Perhaps he gathered them from dead Jedi after those battles, or was given them, but I would have assumed, even if I had not seen the cartoons, that if he is carring trophies, that he himself had killed the Jedi in question. ``` ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/57 "2005-11-30T22:59:36Z")
> [@Sweetums](#): > > The Clone Wars cartoons do indeed show Greivous kicking Jedi butt. I admit my error and retract my statement. I can only assume that the cartoon Greivous is more bad ass than the one in the film. Considering that Tartikovsky was behind the cartoons, I’m assuming everybody is more bad ass. But, I suppose a brief appearnance by a Jedi named Saam-U-Raijaq is too much to hope for? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/58 "2005-11-30T23:29:21Z")
Can we end this _Star Wars_ hijack? This is a _Star Trek_ thread! And we have no patience with geeks 'round here! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/59 "2005-12-01T03:34:19Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I admit my error and retract my statement. I can only assume that the cartoon Greivous is more bad ass than the one in the film. Considering that Tartikovsky was behind the cartoons, I’m assuming everybody is more bad ass. But, I suppose a brief appearnance by a Jedi named Saam-U-Raijaq is too much to hope for? Well, yeah, he was a lot more badass in the cartoon, as was almost everyone, but it’s worth mentioning that Obi Wan Kenobi is indeed more badass than most Jedi. He’s one of the Masters on the Jedi Council for goodness sake. This is the guy who has tea with Yoda and Mace Windu before leading his army off to some place or another. I don’t recall any of the other Jedi Masters fighting Grevious, with possibly one exception. For the most part, we only see Grevious fighting Clone Troopers, Padawans, and Jedi Knights. He does seem to handle himself well in a light saber duel against a Jedi Knight towards the end of the Clone Wars cartoon, but even by his own admission, he had made sure the knight in question had spent much of her strength fighting a bunch of his bodyguard droids as a diversion first. When Obi Wan fights Grevious on Utapau, it’s the first time they have actually fought eachother. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/60 "2005-12-01T03:44:37Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Well, yeah, he was a lot more badass in the cartoon, as was almost everyone, but it’s worth mentioning that Obi Wan Kenobi is indeed more badass than most Jedi. He’s one of the Masters on the Jedi Council for goodness sake. This is the guy who has tea with Yoda and Mace Windu before leading his army off to some place or another. > > I don’t recall any of the other Jedi Masters fighting Grevious, with possibly one exception. For the most part, we only see Grevious fighting Clone Troopers, Padawans, and Jedi Knights. He does seem to handle himself well in a light saber duel against a Jedi Knight towards the end of the Clone Wars cartoon, but even by his own admission, he had made sure the knight in question had spent much of her strength fighting a bunch of his bodyguard droids as a diversion first. When Obi Wan fights Grevious on Utapau, it’s the first time they have actually fought eachother. No, one of the Jedis he fights when we first see him is the cone-headed guy from the Jedi council, and Grievous kicks his ass pretty handily. However, at that point the Jedi had just lost a major battle, and were exhausted and demoralized. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249.md?page=4)