# Why are Klingon weapons so ridiculous? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249 "2005-11-29T19:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/101 "2005-12-03T08:40:23Z")
I’ve never heard anything about blaster shots moving at light speed. After all, they aren’t lasers, they’re “blasters”. They never do explain what blasters shoot, do they? Probably for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/102 "2005-12-03T09:02:04Z")
Yeah, the real question about Star Wars is, if they can all travel faster than the speed of light, why haven’t they developed guns that can shoot fast-moving projectiles such as bullets? 😉 But yeah, Klingons like to use oddly shaped sharp things in combat, Starfleet for the longest time liked to wear spandex bodyarmor. We all have our character quirks. I think it’s a staple of Sci-fi for soldiers to emply impractical weapons, be they Bat’leths, Light Sabers, Minbari Fighting Pikes, Sawed-off Winchester Carbines, or STB (Slower Than Bullet) energy weapons (be they Blasters, Pulse Phasers, PPGs, or “Little Yellow Balls of Light”). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/103 "2005-12-03T09:11:39Z")
All of this talk about bayonets has gotten me thinking: Klingons like using melee weapons because they like to get up close and personal to kill their foes. Okay, the bayonet isn’t the best melee weapon, but it’s something you’d figure the Klingons would be all over: A gun that you can use in melee combat. Shouldn’t there be a Klingon take on this? I’m thinking of some sort of bladed assault rifle that’s balanced for melee combat, so it’s more of a sword that you can shoot people with. I’m neither a warrior nor an engineer, so I don’t know what such a weapon would look like. It would be heavy, but Klingons are strong, so it wouldn’t be so bad. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/104 "2005-12-03T17:11:52Z")
> [@](#): > > And how do you know where the balance point is on a weapon you have never lifted? It seems that you can have no idea how heavy the hilt and tang are and as such have no idea what the balance is like. But there’s no need that flange anyway. It can’t be more than dead weight where it’s positioned. (It should be curved out at least; as it is will tend to pull blows in) And increasing the hilt weight enough to compensate will make it even more unweildy. The blade would need to be heavier - but this contradicts its stated mission of being a small, quick weapon. It’s certainly not designed properly for close-quarters. > [@](#): > > I see, so what is simply a hilt guard won’t help you block anything. Can you explain the logic behind this? That’s not a hilt guard. That’s half as big as the blade! > [@](#): > > People often have this idea that there is one ‘best weapon’ that is applicable in all times, all places, for all people and all reasons. I don’t. Don’t put words in my mouth. [quote] The truth is that the best weapon varies from place to place and person to person. > [@](#): > > There is little use having a perfect parrying weapon like a shield if it can not be used to inflict damage. Nor is there much use having a heavy long sword in situations where the press of bodies will stop it being used. _I’m not saying there’s one perfect weapon._ I’m saying that for what it’s used for, in Star Trek, it sucks. There are better. > [@](#): > > OK, so now I get to ask: How often have you used this weapon in order that you can make this judgement? And who trained you in its correct use? I don’t need a Bat’leth instructor to tell me that focusing the grip inward is a bad idea; the only move you can do with it is the popular-in-Star-Trek two warriors twisting. That won’t specifically hurt the power coming of the blow, but it limits the range of motion and keeps the weapon too close. Tellingly, Worf often uses the thing like a club or axe - but the design has no advantage that way. In parrying, you wdn’t want to meet an opponent’s blow that close to the chest. He’ll just drive it back into you. Sure, it can catch a weapon; but that’s not sufficient; you also have to stop the weapon blow itself. Now, this Bat’leth creates a second problem: the points on it are aimed the wrong way! You never see someone stabbing with a Bat’leth, and for good reason: the grip means its nigh-impossible to stab with. Instead, they swing it. This causes problems. The weapon has two points, but neither is really well situated. The inside point isn’t going to help too much, though it may crease a small line on someone. The second just does the same, though maybe on a bigger scale. If it hand an angled blade(s) like a gurka knife I could see it. As I said, I could see the Bat’leth being a dueling weapon (thus, it was not inappropriate for Worf to use one against Duras). Dueling weapons are often specialized or even deliberately inferior. But it makes no sense for it to be a common military weapon, as it is usually potrayed. Klingon soldiers would not carry it into battle unless they were insane. Unfortunately, at times they did. Most of the weapons on that page are fine, if considerably more decorated than is usually considered proper. Some of them have artistic flourishes which would probably weaken the weapon. > [@](#): > > The only way to take an enemy trench was to cover the ground as quickly as possible with as many men as possible. Under those circumstances the attackers couldn’t readily fire rifles, and a complete lack of SMGs meant that almost every charge was a bayonette charge. Note that the tactic was not terribly successful and probably caused of millions of casualties. It was a bad tactic, using a mostly-obsolete weapon. It’s not really something to hold up as an example of melee technology remaining relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/105 "2005-12-03T21:27:14Z")
> [@](#): > > The only way to take an enemy trench was to cover the ground as quickly as possible with as many men as possible. Under those circumstances the attackers couldn’t readily fire rifles, and a complete lack of SMGs meant that almost every charge was a bayonette charge. > [@smiling bandit](#): > > Note that the tactic was not terribly successful and probably caused of millions of casualties. It was a bad tactic, using a mostly-obsolete weapon. It’s not really something to hold up as an example of melee technology remaining relevant. True, true. What tended to happen in actual practice was that the poor shmucks taking part in the charge would get slaughtered by machine gun fire, and then a slatemate would develop. Tanks were invented primarily to deal with this sort of situation. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/106 "2005-12-03T21:49:38Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > I think it’s a staple of Sci-fi for soldiers to emply impractical weapons, be they Bat’leths, Light Sabers, Minbari Fighting Pikes, Sawed-off Winchester Carbines, or STB (Slower Than Bullet) energy weapons (be they Blasters, Pulse Phasers, PPGs, or “Little Yellow Balls of Light”). Hey hey hey hey hey. Are you saying you wouldn’t want a Minbari fighting pike? That thing is so damn cool! And the sound it makes? That would be reason enough for me keep it in use in the days of space cruisers and what have you. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/107 "2005-12-04T20:32:22Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > Hey hey hey hey hey. Are you saying you wouldn’t want a Minbari fighting pike? That thing is so damn cool! And the sound it makes? That would be reason enough for me keep it in use in the days of space cruisers and what have you. Well, personally, I prefer the Copeland J5000 Medical Scanner. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/108 "2005-12-04T20:42:33Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > True, true. What tended to happen in actual practice was that the poor shmucks taking part in the charge would get slaughtered by machine gun fire, and then a slatemate would develop. Tanks were invented primarily to deal with this sort of situation. That’s true, sort of, in some circumstances. The actual nature of combat in WWI has been extraordinarily oversimplified in popular literature. As devastating as the machine gun was at stopping some attacks, infantry assaults, usually preceded by artillery bombardments, were sometimes extremely effective at overwhelming enemy trenches. Vimy Ridge is an obvious, albiet unusually well-practised, examples, but trenches were overcomes in any numbers of occasions in the Somme, Verdun, or various 1918 offensives, among others. As a matter of fact, the front trenches were so frequently subject to being overwhelmed by a forward assault that it become customary to not heavily man them, for fear of losing everyone you poured into them, and instead concentration the bulk of soldiers in the backup trenches. The Germans in particular favored this defensive approach. What generally stymied offensives on the Western Front wasn’t the lack of tanks. It was the lack of **radios**. Once broken through the first trench line, the attacking infantry were effectively cut off from command; they had no real time means of communication, because they had no radios and no other form of signalling was practical. Consequently, they could not receive orders for further offensive operations, and most important couldn’t call for or correct artillery fire - the best methodology for dealing with machine guns. The defensive side then had the initiative and could arrange a counteroffensive to deal with the attackers. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/109 "2005-12-05T08:52:21Z")
Even some of the more textbook tactics in WWI, such as preceeding a rush with a prepatory artillery barrage, weren’t used all the time. By the later years of the war, when the artillery barrage happened, everybody on the receiving end would just hunker down in bunkers and dugouts until the shelling stopped before coming out to face the oncoming offensive. At the opening of the Somme Offensive, the Allies completley forwent the artillery barrage, instead just rushing with 600 tanks on a foggy morning, taking the Germans completley by suprise (by this point, everyone knew that the other side wouldn’t attack until they had shelled you first). Actually, every war in history has probably been oversimplified in the public imagination. Everyone knows about the British fighting the German U Boats in the Atlantic in WWI, but most folks don’t realize that the Japanese Imperial Navy was also fighting Austrian U Boats in the Mediterranean, or that a number of navies operated Aircraft Carriers (such as the HMS Furious, first aircraft carrier to launch an air raid using conventional warplanes instead of seaplanes). It’s similarly easy to forget that the American Civil War featured, not only iron-clad warships, but also submarines (well, a submarine) and trench warfare. Actually, if you want to talk about impractical weapons (somewhat meandering back in the general direction of the original topic), let’s talk about the HMS Furious. An aircraft carrier with the superstructure (bridge, wheelhouse, smokestacks, etc.) right in the middle of the flight deck. Apparantly after several accidents on landing, it became customary for pilots to ditch their planes in the water next to the carrier, where a crane would then lift it up onto the deck. A later refit removed the superstructure and somehow rerouted the smokestacks. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/110 "2005-12-05T14:33:00Z")
> [@Max the Immortal](#): > > a sword that you can shoot people with. You’d be thinking of the much-loved Farscape [doodead](http://rpggamer.org/stats.php?page=d6/d6qualtablade.html) carried by the big burly dude. Myself, I’d put one of [these](http://world.guns.ru/assault/as41-e.htm) up agains any Klingon or Jedi (if I was allowed the grenade launcher, that is). And the best part is you can buy them today, from Belgium. Beer and psycho weapons - lovely 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/111 "2005-12-07T02:55:58Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > It’s similarly easy to forget that the American Civil War featured, not only iron-clad warships, but also submarines (well, a submarine) and trench warfare. It was barely a submarine. OTTOMH-big metal tube, a propeller turned by six men working an axle with their hands (IIRC, bicycles were at the boneshaker stage, much like a modern bike except for the wooden wheels and lack of pedals. Still, I don’t know why it didn’t occur to somebody that legs are stronger muscles then arms), at the bow was a rod with an explosive spike mounted on it, there was one hatch it was sealed by a lid weighing 30 pounds. The plan was to submerge and ram an enemy ship. The spike would embed in the enemy hull. When the submarine pulled away, a rope attached to the bow rod and the spike would tighen and the spike would explode. IMO The only thing the “peripatetic coffin” was good for was inspiring crackpot tinkers like myself. There are times when the current boat, diving bell, submarine, or bathysphere I’m working on seems like a bad idea. But, I jut remember the Civil War submarine, and know that I can make it work. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/112 "2005-12-07T04:46:46Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I When the submarine pulled away, a rope attached to the bow rod and the spike would tighen and the spike would explode. > > IMO The only thing the “peripatetic coffin” was good for was inspiring crackpot tinkers like myself. Would, Hell. 🙂 It was good for sinking the US Housitanic. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/113 "2005-12-07T15:06:33Z")
> [@](#): > > but most folks don’t realize that the Japanese Imperial Navy was also fighting Austrian U Boats in the Mediterranean Don’t keep us in suspense! More! BTW, how could they have battled the Austrian Navy? Austria didn’t exist in WWII… Or was this WWI? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/114 "2005-12-07T17:57:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Would, Hell. 🙂 > It was good for sinking the US Housitanic. True, but I think the subsequent fate of the Hunley and her crew might be proof of a basic design flaw. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunley) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/115 "2005-12-08T01:48:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > True, but I think the subsequent fate of the Hunley and her crew might be proof of a basic design flaw. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunley) I don’t use wiki, but the theory after raising the Hunley is that she was sunk by the same explosion. There is a contemporary report of their blue signal light outside the harbor, and the possiblity that she survived the explosion to be swamped trying to return. The point is that however she was lost, converted train boilers are less expensive that warships. 🙂 Whatever one’s opinion, she remains the first submarine to sink an enemy warship. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/116 "2005-12-08T09:52:06Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Don’t keep us in suspense! More! > > BTW, how could they have battled the Austrian Navy? Austria didn’t exist in WWII… Or was this WWI? Yeah, it was WWI, sorry if I wasn’t clear there. During WWI, The Empire of Japan was one of the Allied Powers (apparantly rather cuddly with the British). They initially just patrolled the Pacific against any Axis threats (taking over a number of German colonies on the way), then began taking over in other theatres as the Europeans had to keep pulling more and more of their naval forces in to fight the Germans. Towards the end of the war, the Japanese were apparantly patrolling in the South Atlantic as well. They also built some ships for the French and Brits, IIRC. Bah, there was an excellent article online that I read this in, but I can’t find it now. But yeah, the Japanese were with the Allies in WWI. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/117 "2008-10-02T02:17:23Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > I’ve never heard anything about blaster shots moving at light speed. After all, they aren’t lasers, they’re “blasters”. They never do explain what blasters shoot, do they? Probably for the best. Tibana gas. Here’s the wiki entry: > [@](#): > > Tibanna gas is a main export of Cloud City on Bespin. It is briefly mentioned in The Empire Strikes Back, when Solo discovers that Calrissian is now running Cloud City, but its use was never revealed in the movie. The novels eventually explained it as a blaster gas, used in many small-arms laser weapons, and in the first Rogue Squadron game for the Nintendo 64, Tibanna gas was noted as being used in the blasters of Imperial TIE Fighters as well as Rebel Fighters. Tibanna gas in a cooled, liquid form is also used as a coolant in hyperdrive engines, and it’s sale and distribution is regulated by the Imperial Mining guild. Semi-legal operators of illicit spacecraft seek out sources of Tibanna gas that are not regulated by Imperial authorities, so as to keep their operations secret. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/118 "2008-10-02T02:47:51Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > tibana gas. Here’s the wiki entry: zomg! Zombie wookies! :d ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/119 "2008-10-02T03:08:04Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Compare him to Dooku, who defeats Obi Wan and takes off one of Annakin’s arms. Yeah, but taking off a guy’s arm in the Star Wars universe is like really really easy. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249/120 "2008-10-02T14:54:30Z")
Odd note: There’s some debate over whether Star Wars blaster shots are light or sublight. Some say they’re basically shooting out super-heated, charged matter, while others say the blaster shots are actually super-powerful lasers with tracers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-klingon-weapons-so-ridiculous/333249.md?page=7)