# Why are lemons called lemons when they used to be called limes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 28, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609 "2005-07-28T17:28:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/1 "2005-07-28T17:28:36Z")
I heard that when the Brittish navy started issuing lime juice to their sailers to prevent scurvy, it was really what we call lemons today. Back then the yellow things were called limes. What were limes called back then? Did they even exist? Why the change in names? ---
**Author:** ![JerH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@JerH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerH)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/2 "2005-07-28T18:00:49Z")
Wikipedia says “The Royal Navy originally thought lemons were overripe limes which they resemble and their sailors became known as limeys, not lemonies.” No source given, though. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/3 "2005-07-28T19:06:13Z")
I don’t know if this is relevant, but I know that in Portuguese, for example, the word for lemon and lime is the same: _limão_. When they need to differentiate between the two, they say _limão verde_ (green lemon) or _limão amarelo_ (yellow lemon). Perhaps in English the words used to be the same too. But this is just a WAG. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/4 "2005-07-28T20:34:08Z")
> [@I\_Know\_Nothing](#): > > Why the change in names? That’s nobody’s business but the Turks’. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/5 "2005-07-29T00:47:48Z")
The older name is lemon, at least in English. IT shows up around 1400, and is spelled _lymon_. The spelling doesn’t change to _lemon_ until the 1600’s. Limes don’t show up in English until 1638. As for what the Royal navy did, they evidently issued “lime juice” in about the 1790’s. The derisive term “lime-juicer” was used in print starting in and about the mid-late 1800’s. To Australians, it could mean a Brit who had recently come to Australia, and to Americans a British ship. I think they knew the difference between a lime and a lemon by the 1790’s. But I can’t prove it yet. ---
**Author:** ![cruel\_butterfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5daacb/32.png) [@cruel\_butterfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cruel_butterfly)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/6 "2005-07-29T03:04:11Z")
> [@Loopus](#): > > I don’t know if this is relevant, but I know that in Portuguese, for example, the word for lemon and lime is the same: _limão_. When they need to differentiate between the two, they say _limão verde_ (green lemon) or _limão amarelo_ (yellow lemon). > > Perhaps in English the words used to be the same too. But this is just a WAG. I frequently bartend Tejano concerts. For anyone not familiar with Tejano (pronounced: teh- **haw** -no) music, it’s kinda like Spanish-language/culture country music. The vast majority of the concert-goers speak Spanish as a primary language, and when they order beer or Margaritas, they ask for a _limon_. They mean “lime”. Then there’s Bacardi Limon, which is rum infused with the flavor of lime, not lemon. ---
**Author:** ![seetha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seetha/32/18835_2.png) [@seetha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seetha)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/7 "2005-07-29T03:04:46Z")
jus my two cents worth… down here, in the southern parts of india, we have one word to describe both lime and lemon. i have a tough time when i try to explain that the two english words actually mean two different fruits…ermm… they do right? ---
**Author:** ![filmyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@filmyak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmyak)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/8 "2005-07-29T08:35:11Z")
Heh. Yeah. Limes are green. Go great with Coronas. Lemons are yellow. Not so good with Coronas. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/9 "2005-07-29T09:33:54Z")
All those citrus things interbreed like nuts. View them as a continuum ranging from infra-lemon on one side to the ultra-orange on the other. In the middle is mess of confusing half-cases. Confusion is natural. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/10 "2005-07-29T09:35:59Z")
I always thought the British Navy used limes (and hence the name ‘limeys’) because at the time they were introduced to prevent scurvy they could not secure a reliable supply of lemons. Something to do with whoever was at war at the time and who controlled what trade routes. But I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/11 "2005-07-29T11:25:29Z")
Y’see, you can’t always tell by the outside if something is a lemon or not. I used to have an '86 Nissan Sentra that…What? Oh. Sorry. Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/12 "2005-07-29T12:54:33Z")
> [@Loopus](#): > > I don’t know if this is relevant, but I know that in Portuguese, for example, the word for lemon and lime is the same: _limão_. When they need to differentiate between the two, they say _limão verde_ (green lemon) or _limão amarelo_ (yellow lemon). Wait a minute…does this mean that lemons and limes aren’t the same fruit? I always assumed (like in portuguese, the name in french is the same for both, with the adjective “green” added to tell them apart) that they were the same fruit, one ripe and the other not. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/13 "2005-07-29T14:04:03Z")
The word _lemon_ is the original one from Arabic. Lemons and limes were introduced into Europe by Arabs who planted gardens in Spain and Sicily. The Arabic form of the word, _laymûn_, was borrowed into European languages. Arabic got the word from Persian _limu_, which got it from Hindi _nimbu_ or _nibu_. When you denasalize the initial n-, it becomes l-. This happened in the word lilac too: Persian got its word _lilak_ (with the diminutive suffix -k) from Hindi _nil_ ‘blue’. The original source for the Hindi word _nimbu_ or _nibu_ for lemons and limes was one of the indigenous Munda languages of aboriginal India, belonging to the Austroasiatic language family, according to the etymology in the _Oxford Hindi Dictionary_. Other Austroasiatic languages include Khmer and Vietnamese. See this page which tracks the etymon for “_Citrus acida_” (?) in the various Indo-Aryan and Dravidian languages: [http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/Indian%20Lexicon/citrus.htm](http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/Indian%20Lexicon/citrus.htm) The Munda languages are spoken in India by aboriginal hill tribes, such as Santal, Oraon, Birhor, and Ho. Their relationship to other branches of Austronesian like Mon-Khmer and Vietnamese is a very distant one. In Italian, too, they have only one word for both lemons and limes. In fact, every language I can think of except English has only one word for both fruits. This goes back to the aboriginal Munda word in India, which used only one name to cover both. The real question here is how English managed to differentiate two words, one for the green one and one for the yellow one. Oh yeah, botanical taxonomy also differentiates the two: Lemon is _Citrus limon_ and lime is _Citrus aurantifolia_. The two fruits not only look different, they taste different too. Seems natural to call them different names. But if you go to South India and check out the lemons, they are small, like limes, and the pulp has a drier consistency more like limes. The limes themselves are less green and more yellowish. In other words, the cultivars are not as differentiated in South Indian varieties. In modern Persian, although the word _limu_ is used for both fruits, they distinguish limes by calling them _limu torsh_ meaning ‘sour lemon’. Likewise in Modern Arabic, they call limes _laymûn hâmiD_, ‘sour lemon’. The _American Heritage Dictionary_ etymology for “lime” says this word came from “Arabic _lima, lim_, probably from _limun_, lemon” to explain why we use two different words in English. However, I checked several Arabic dictionaries, including _al-Munjid, al-Mawrid, An Advanced Learner’s Arabic-English Dictonary,_ and Hans Wehr’s _Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic_. None of them had this alleged word _lima, lim_, so I am skeptical of the _AHD_ claim. I did find in _al-Mawrid_ by Munir al-Ba’labakki an Arabic translation of “lime” as _laym_, but this seems to be one of those Lebanese neologisms coined by al-Ba‘labakki after the English word. Maybe because English has differentiated the two fruits, now other languages are trying to find different words for them. English-speaking tourists go to Arab countries and ask how to say “lemon” and “lime,” they’re told the same word. “Really? I can’t believe it, we have two different words for them. Aren’t they different fruits? How come only one word for both?” Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/14 "2005-07-29T14:07:50Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > But if you go to South India and check out the lemons, they are small, like limes, and the pulp has a drier consistency more like limes. The limes themselves are less green and more yellowish. Sounds like what we call a “[key lime](http://www.keylime.com/diff.html)” in these parts. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/15 "2005-07-29T14:32:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Wait a minute…does this mean that lemons and limes aren’t the same fruit? I always assumed (like in portuguese, the name in french is the same for both, with the adjective “green” added to tell them apart) that they were the same fruit, one ripe and the other not. No, they are basically a different species, although as has been noted, they do split genetic material between each other. Still, you don’t get lemons and limes off the same plant. ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/16 "2005-07-29T15:05:05Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > All those citrus things interbreed like nuts. View them as a continuum ranging from infra-lemon on one side to the ultra-orange on the other. In the middle is mess of confusing half-cases. Confusion is natural. Citrus ensues? ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/17 "2005-07-29T15:16:51Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > I always thought the British Navy used limes (and hence the name ‘limeys’) because at the time they were introduced to prevent scurvy they could not secure a reliable supply of lemons. Something to do with whoever was at war at the time and who controlled what trade routes. > > But I could be wrong. Brits could have ended up being called “Krauts” instead of Limeys. Captain Cook took over a ton of sauerkraut with him on at least two of his voyages. He did take a small amount of lime juice as well, but it was sauerkraut that was fed to the sailors every day. He never lost any of his men to scurvy. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/18 "2005-07-29T16:35:05Z")
Lemons (Citrus limon) are said to be a cultivar (or perhaps a sub species) of Citrus medica - Citron. One site claims it is actually a hybrid: Citrus medica (Citron) and Citrus aurantifolia Limes are one of the original species that make up most of the citruses: Citrus aurantifolia. Key limes are just Citrus aurantifolia. Sorry Floridians, but your lime is really the same as the Mexican Lime (same species). The members of the citrus genus are all “sexually liberal” species. They cross with each other easily, which is why there are so many different types of citrus. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/19 "2005-07-29T16:42:29Z")
Or alternately, that is why there are only a few kinds of citrus. One thing just sort of melds into the next. Sort of depend how you look at it. ---
**Author:** ![Amaranta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Amaranta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amaranta)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609/20 "2005-07-29T16:48:41Z")
I’ve been wondering about this recently, as I work in a bar. I have learned that if people with certain accents (French or Spanish sounding, for example) ask for a gin and tonic with lemon, I’ll be saving myself a trip by tossing a couple of lime slices in there instead. Certain things, like rum and coke, are ordered with either lemons or limes, so there’s a lot of “No, not the yellow ones, the green lemons” when I get the drinks to a table. Now I know why! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-lemons-called-lemons-when-they-used-to-be-called-limes/314609.md?page=2)