# Why are Libertarians more Manly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604 "2013-10-18T20:38:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/41 "2013-10-19T12:54:12Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > Peripheral question: libertarians generally believe in the good of human nature while liberals believe in the vices of humans. If liberals believe humans to be flawed how can a flawed liberal lead a country? I’m not sure I understand the jist of your question. Liberals are aware of the vices of humans and want state intervention to protect various oppressed classes. And humans are flawed, politics aside I don’t see how someone can conclude that humans are not flawed. Matt Ridley is a renowned libertarian, which is fine but you have to question his methodology. I’m trying to find the original paper by Haidt (who I have a lot of respect for) and am having trouble. Either way libertarians are more independent, less socially dependent, value freedom more, have less emotion (disgust or empathy), etc. I’m not sure what the debate is based on that. According to Haidt liberals score high on harm and fairness values, but low on ingroup, authority and purity. Conservatives value all 5, with the further right the lower harm and fairness are valued to you and the more the other three are important to you. [![](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Sya1JX9MFJw/TBLOmkqTw5I/AAAAAAAAAB8/xHQZz7AikdA/s1600/jonathan_haidt_morality_graph.png) ](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Sya1JX9MFJw/TBLOmkqTw5I/AAAAAAAAAB8/xHQZz7AikdA/s1600/jonathan_haidt_morality_graph.png) According to Haidt (and I can’t find a chart or results for this) libertarians place very little value on any of the 5 moral values. They don’t value authority, sanctity or purity (so no social conservative values or worship of the police and military) and they don’t value harm or fairness (so no efforts to use the public or private sector to fight injustice). This makes them a separate political animal than conservatives or liberals. I agree with that (conservatives value all 5 of the values, liberals value 2, libertarians value none). I don’t agree that it makes them superior. If people in general wanted a libertarian society they would vote for one. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/42 "2013-10-19T12:56:24Z")
Anecdote time! I’m a small l libertarian. Tea Party supporter. Registered independent but conservative and voted for Romney. Last Sunday I shot a deer with my bow. It has a 72 pound draw, because I am strong like bull! I didn’t want to waste a vacation day processing it. So after letting it hang overnight I woke up early Monday morning and took less than a half hour to skin it and remove the meat from the bones. I cut my finger but slapped a band aid on it and didn’t miss a beat. I can grow a full beard in a week. I think a [lapdance is better when the stripper is crying.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMGVMtnxXEw) **elucidator** disapproves of me. I’m a conservative posting on the SDMB and I’ve only been warned once in thirteen years. I’ve never been pitted. Now, if you’ll excuse me I’ve got to go to a ballet lesson. It’s for my daughter, but yes, I’ll be checking out the MILFs while I’m hanging out in the waiting room. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/43 "2013-10-19T12:59:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You have to give libertarians this: they’re way better at self-congratulation than liberals or conservatives. They’ve elevated it to an art. Self-congratulation is the foundation of American liberalism. They are the ones who care, don’t you know? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/44 "2013-10-19T13:06:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As for how a flawed person can lead a country that’s simple; there’s no unflawed people in existence so there’s no other option. You’ve already demonstrated on several occasions you do not understand the libertarian ethic and show no desire to fight your own ignorance, so I won’t address the body of your post. But i will correct your error here. The other option is to have no person “lead” the country. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/45 "2013-10-19T13:12:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe libertarians are just overcompensating for having small penises. Oh ok, it makes sense now. You should have explained your disdain for libertarianism was associated with unsatisfactory sexual encounters with small-penised libertarians. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/46 "2013-10-19T13:16:22Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > You’ve already demonstrated on several occasions you do not understand the libertarian ethic and show no desire to fight your own ignorance, so I won’t address the body of your post. No; I’ve demonstrated that I don’t take libertarian claims at face value any more than I do those of, say, Communism. Communism and libertarianism have several similarities; one of which is how they both make a lot of talk about how benevolent they are while acting _anything but_ benevolent. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > But i will correct your error here. The other option is to have no person “lead” the country. No, that’s not a realistic option unless you have a superhuman AI tucked away somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/47 "2013-10-19T13:25:29Z")
According to the link given in the OP, all that is claimed is that libertarians tend to react less emotionally. This doesn’t surprise me at all, as it’s emotion that determines how much we care about things other than ourselves. Have I missed something interesting here, or is this as unremarkable as I think? > [@marshmallow](#): > > Homosexuals are the manliest men. They’re so manly they don’t need to pollute themselves with women and their irrational emotions. Once you’re that manly only other manly men will do. The Spartans had this all figured out. “Fucking females is for poofs”. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/48 "2013-10-19T13:30:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; I’ve demonstrated that I don’t take libertarian claims at face value any more than I do those of, say, Communism. Communism and libertarianism have several similarities; one of which is how they both make a lot of talk about how benevolent they are while acting _anything but_ benevolent. > > No, that’s not a realistic option unless you have a superhuman AI tucked away somewhere. Human beings don’t need to be led. Your need to be led by a human vested with overwhelming power likely has a psychological basis. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/49 "2013-10-19T13:32:48Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Human beings don’t need to be led. Sure they do. No leaders means a mass slaughter and social collapse until new leaders emerge; Somalia of course being the popular example. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/50 "2013-10-19T13:57:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Sure they do. No leaders means a mass slaughter and social collapse until new leaders emerge; Somalia of course being the popular example. Maybe you are blissfully ignorant of the myriad interventions in Somalia backed by the US. There are plenty of countries that are just as bad as Somalia, yet have governments. Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/51 "2013-10-19T14:49:37Z")
The only Libertarian I personally know is not what anyone would call manly. Not even he would call himself manly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/52 "2013-10-19T14:53:45Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Anecdote time! > > I’m a small l libertarian. Tea Party supporter. Registered independent but conservative and voted for Romney. > > Last Sunday I shot a deer with my bow. It has a 72 pound draw, because I am strong like bull! > > I didn’t want to waste a vacation day processing it. So after letting it hang overnight I woke up early Monday morning and took less than a half hour to skin it and remove the meat from the bones. I cut my finger but slapped a band aid on it and didn’t miss a beat. You didn’t eat the deer raw? I call you woman!! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/53 "2013-10-19T14:54:09Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > Why does it seem as if the majority of this board enjoys shitting on libertarians? Look up at the top of your screen. See where it says “The Straight Dope”? Now read what’s right under that. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/54 "2013-10-19T15:08:58Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Maybe you are blissfully ignorant of the myriad interventions in Somalia backed by the US. There are plenty of countries that are just as bad as Somalia, yet have governments. Try harder. Maybe you need to try less hard. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/55 "2013-10-19T16:00:40Z")
I think this is a ridiculous concept to debate. What is “manliness”? There’s no objective reason why Bill Clinton and Warren Beatty are less manly than some guy who lives in a bunker. “Studies” like this look like political jabs and nothing more - it’s a strategy old as the hills to claim that your enemies are soft, weak and mentally unstable. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/56 "2013-10-19T16:08:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You didn’t eat the deer raw? I call you woman!! Even worse, he killed it first. A real man would just tear of a piece as it ran by. With his teeth. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/57 "2013-10-19T16:34:01Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Look up at the top of your screen. See where it says “The Straight Dope”? Now read what’s right under that. Libertarianism was born in 1973? Why didn’t you pro-choicers have an abortion instead? ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/58 "2013-10-19T16:35:19Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > “Studies” like this look like political jabs and nothing more - it’s a strategy old as the hills to claim that your enemies are soft, weak and mentally unstable. :rolleyes: The study didn’t say non-libertarians were mentally unstable; just that they were less tolerant than libertarians and relied less on reason and had other undesirable qualities. Homo inferior indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/59 "2013-10-19T16:39:03Z")
Well, to rely mostly on reason is to ignore the emotional aspect of politics and social interaction. Both of which are enormously dependent on emotion and instinct. Why, to ignore - or discount - such would be to court perpetual third party stat… Oh, nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/60 "2013-10-19T16:40:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Sure they do. No leaders means a mass slaughter and social collapse until new leaders emerge; Somalia of course being the popular example. Somalia is actually getting by. Somalia has cell phone coverage (very inexpensive) and corporations are stepping in to fill traditional government functions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604.md?page=4)