# Why are Libertarians more Manly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604 "2013-10-18T20:38:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/61 "2013-10-19T16:45:01Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > Somalia is actually getting by. Somalia has cell phone coverage (very inexpensive) and corporations are stepping in to fill traditional government functions. If you need better evidence than this about \*\*IceQube’\*\*s intentions here, I cannot possibly imagine what evidence that would be. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/62 "2013-10-19T16:50:54Z")
Oy, close to attacking the poster. Watch it. No warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/63 "2013-10-19T16:56:16Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > :rolleyes: > > The study didn’t say non-libertarians were mentally unstable; just that they were less tolerant than libertarians and relied less on reason and had other undesirable qualities. Homo inferior indeed. Well, I admit you’ve scored a point there - people like Michelle Bachmann are indeed much more tolerant and reasonable than people like Hillary Clinton. On the other hand, Professor Ludwig von Hoofenmeister has a new study coming out proving that people exactly like me have the most desirable qualities of all human beings on earth. He’s my friend and I’m paying him, but he’s promised to be completely objective. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/64 "2013-10-19T17:15:47Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Now, if you’ll excuse me I’ve got to go to a ballet lesson. > > It’s for my daughter, but yes, I’ll be checking out the MILFs while I’m hanging out in the waiting room. Is there any other reason to pretend you’re a good father? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/65 "2013-10-19T17:23:19Z")
The Examiner “article” is self-serving tripe, and the less said about it the better. The WSJ cite has a little more substance, but IMO fundamentally misrepresents Haidt’s work. More relevantly, it displays an essentially flawed conflation of causation and correlation. IOW, it’s just another crap opinion by someone with an ideological axe to grind. So to address the OP: Why are Libertarians more manly? They aren’t, and your argument, such as it is, is meaningless. -a- ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/66 "2013-10-19T17:48:07Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > If you ever want to watch one of these types head explode, just point out to them that Ayn Rand [despised libertarians](http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ar_libertarianism_qa). For all they go on about Ayn Rand, it’s funny how they never seem to know that. Actually the guy was a self-described objectivist, not a libertarian. To me, as an outsider, the differences seem bafflingly minute. I suspect it’s because to be an Objectivist you have to buy into Ayn Rand’s cult of personality, and many libertarians, while more or less agreeing with and admiring Rand, do not. I live within walking distance of Reason magazine and I know some of these people. A lot of them are nice guys, and I’ve enjoyed drinking with them, but they aren’t any more manly than any other nerdy policy wonk in this town. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/67 "2013-10-19T18:00:27Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > Why does it seem as if the majority of this board enjoys shitting on libertarians? I guess it would be because libertarians envision themselves as take-charge, omni-experts who can handle anything. When in fact their policies are a trainwreck-clusterfuck that sounds like the economic system a 9 year old would come up with while on the toilet. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/68 "2013-10-19T18:10:15Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > Peripheral question: libertarians generally believe in the good of human nature while liberals believe in the vices of humans. This is an absolute slaughtering of at least one of the listed positions. It’s also a facile oversimplification. If any liberal truly believed that human nature was overwhelmingly good, he’d be a naive fool. Liberals don’t necessarily reject that humans are inherently good, they simply accept that there’s a lot wrong with us and that this needs to be accounted for. It’s wishful thinking to imagine that a government could work without taxation. It’s wishful thinking to imagine that country could work without government. It’s wishful thinking to imagine that unregulated banking works. > [@](#): > > If liberals believe humans to be flawed how can a flawed liberal lead a country? Because a country needs some form of government, and even among the flawed, you can still gradiate from best (FDR, Lincoln, Washington) to worst (Hitler, Stalin, Palin). It doesn’t need a leader, but some form of governing body, some rule of law, is necessary. > [@IceQube](#): > > Why does it seem as if the majority of this board enjoys shitting on libertarians? Because libertarians are all too often ignorant, underinformed, idealistic to the point of naivety, and stuck up their own asses. Libertarianism is lovely in _theory_, but then you set it into practice and realize that oh so much of it is grounded on a massive just world fallacy, that libertarians assume more rationality from people than they can expect, and that so many of the things that would _need_ to work for their philosophy just don’t. But much of the hostility you’re feeling here isn’t just because of libertarianism, but rather because of how you present it. You bring up an incredibly questionable study from a bizarre source, and then use that to ask a presumptuous question (rather than the pertinent thing, which would be questioning the validity of the source first). You ask really dumb questions based on utter misrepresentations of the opposing positions. And you scoff at or ignore valid responses. We fight ignorance here, and with you, we’ve got a lot of work to do. > [@](#): > > Libertarianism was born in 1973? Why didn’t you pro-choicers have an abortion instead? :smack::smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/69 "2013-10-19T18:40:27Z")
Libertarians have more of a “Masculine psychological profile”? As I saw in conversations elsewhere and remembering the libertarians I used to mop the floor with in impromptu debates at Berkeley, that profile also includes properties like being crude, rude and brutish. Remember, not all elements in a profile are beneficial for a modern society, particularly profile elements that mostly a troglodyte would be proud to have. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/70 "2013-10-19T18:42:43Z")
IceQube, In addition to thinking that women are inferior, do you agree with Ron Paul that non-whites are inferior? Just curious, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/71 "2013-10-19T18:45:12Z")
Dirty Fucking Hippies play hacky-sack with a bowling ball. Hunt grizzly bear with a baseball bat. Teach wolverines to play fetch, we don’t even throw anything, we just say “Fetch!” and they bring us something, or else. Our women think of the four-hour Viagra limit as “passing the audition”. Like your bankers says, there is a _substantial_ penalty for early withdrawal. So, OK, nancy-boy, bring your cute little bow and arrow and don’t forget your tu-tu. Or your daughter’s, no worries, we can make it fit. We tried achieving peace and love being nice, didn’t work, so we’ve adapted… ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/72 "2013-10-19T19:15:39Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > I think this is a ridiculous concept to debate. What is “manliness”? There’s no objective reason why Bill Clinton and Warren Beatty are less manly than some guy who lives in a bunker. Well Bubbha “feel[s] your pain” … I think that statement exemplifies emotion over reason. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/73 "2013-10-19T19:18:17Z")
I will freely say that none of the libertarians I knew in college struck me as particularly “manly” much less being more “manly” than the school’s liberals. Admittedly, in my experience, most college students who are strongly political, regardless of their political stance come across as more “nerdy” than “manly”(however one chooses to define the term). That said, and this isn’t meant as an attack on anyone, but I really don’t see this obsessiveness so many people have with libertarianism which is a pretty insignificant political philosophy outside of a few college coffee shops and certain parts of the internet. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/74 "2013-10-19T19:19:03Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > Why does it seem as if the majority of this board enjoys shitting on libertarians? I think most people view libertarians as Republicans who want to smoke up. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/75 "2013-10-19T19:29:00Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > Well Bubbha “feel[s] your pain” … I think that statement exemplifies emotion over reason. Wut? ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/76 "2013-10-19T19:40:40Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I will freely say that none of the libertarians I knew in college struck me as particularly “manly” much less being more “manly” than the school’s liberals. > > Admittedly, in my experience, most college students who are strongly political, regardless of their political stance come across as more “nerdy” than “manly”(however one chooses to define the term). > > That said, and this isn’t meant as an attack on anyone, but I really don’t see this obsessiveness so many people have with libertarianism which is a pretty insignificant political philosophy outside of a few college coffee shops and certain parts of the internet. Liberal policies don’t lubricate the machinery of freedom as well as libertarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/77 "2013-10-19T19:41:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Oh ok, it makes sense now. You should have explained your disdain for libertarianism was associated with unsatisfactory sexual encounters with small-penised libertarians. I was just offering it as a conjecture. I’ll admit I haven’t done the research. But I welcome information from any libertarians who want to participate in the survey. I’ll put you down as a “didn’t deny the premise”. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/78 "2013-10-19T19:46:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Dirty Fucking Hippies play hacky-sack with a bowling ball. Hunt grizzly bear with a baseball bat. Teach wolverines to play fetch, we don’t even throw anything, we just say “Fetch!” and they bring us something, or else. Our women think of the four-hour Viagra limit as “passing the audition”. Like your bankers says, there is a _substantial_ penalty for early withdrawal. > > So, OK, nancy-boy, bring your cute little bow and arrow and don’t forget your tu-tu. Or your daughter’s, no worries, we can make it fit. > > We tried achieving peace and love being nice, didn’t work, so we’ve adapted… Jesus fuck, **elucidator**. You’ve got to put my name in posts like that so I catch it on my hourly vanity search. I might have missed it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/79 "2013-10-19T19:46:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I really don’t see this obsessiveness so many people have with libertarianism which is a pretty insignificant political philosophy outside of a few college coffee shops and certain parts of the internet. That was certainly true up until a few years ago, but now we have a trendy plague of self-styled “libertarians” from Wingnutland who just tried to shut down the government. If someone like Paul Ryan gets to be a VP candidate then it can’t be that insignificant. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604/80 "2013-10-19T19:47:27Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > I think this is a ridiculous concept to debate. What is “manliness”? There’s no objective reason why Bill Clinton and Warren Beatty are less manly than some guy who lives in a bunker. What about Bill Clinton and Warren Beatty in a bunker? Shirtless. That’s manly. Yet, just short of going full circle and being gay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-libertarians-more-manly/671604.md?page=5)