# Why are males better at competitive gaming? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 1, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944 "2010-05-01T04:39:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/61 "2010-05-02T17:43:10Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Males are better at competitive everything. Even in sports which are 90% female and don’t rely on brute strength or skill like equestrian, men are still better. We have to be. You don’t compete, you soon find yourself not much of a man. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/62 "2010-05-02T23:07:51Z")
FWIW, in my experience, competetive women don’t go into video games. I had a long chat with an old friend of mine who’s majorly into football and kick-boxing and her opinion was that if she needed that competetive thrill, she’d get far more bang for her buck in real-life events. She played games - like the SIMS and some strategy games - to let herself relax. Also, considering the social stigma around video games, it’s mostly been my experience that women who game are the ones who didn’t find any interest in competetive activities when they were young. (My girlfriend says that she started playing video games because they had such low treshholds for performance and competition. Interestingly, she played CS - 1.6 and Source - for a while and says she was put off not by the competetive spirit, but by the grave, almost morose, seriousness her male clanmembers treated it with. She also says “Hi!”) If I was to generalize my perception into one big, sweeping rule, it’s not that women are worse at competetive activities, but that women are less competetive full stop. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/63 "2010-05-02T23:14:16Z")
I don’t think there’s a social stigma surrounding video games anymore. Nearly every male my age that I know, whether they’re a nerd or not, plays video games. Edit: In fact, I can’t think of one I know who doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/64 "2010-05-02T23:53:52Z")
That’s because you’re ignoring the difference between these two statements: “I play Rockband with my buddies every other weekend.” “I don’t have the APM to break above C+ on ICCUP.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/65 "2010-05-03T00:02:00Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Bullshit. I’ve played plenty of female characters and never had a problem. The occasional idiot who tries to hit on me without knowing my RL gender is easily told off. > > It’s fucking weird when you feel like you have to hide who you really are though because you don’t have the balls to stand up for yourself (uh, metaphorically of course). And it’s precisely that having to tell them off that makes the game less fun for female gamers. And just because your experience differs does not give you the right to impugn the character of those who report problems. In fact, your attitude is precisely the problem. The idea that it’s okay to rag on people because they should have the guts to rag back–that’s the behavior of a bully. And a game full of bullies is definitely not fun. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/66 "2010-05-03T00:22:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And it’s precisely that having to tell them off that makes the game less fun for female gamers. > > And just because your experience differs does not give you the right to impugn the character of those who report problems. > > In fact, your attitude is precisely the problem. The idea that it’s okay to rag on people because they should have the guts to rag back–that’s the behavior of a bully. And a game full of bullies is definitely not fun. Can I teabag his corpse now? ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/67 "2010-05-03T13:37:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Hot ones, too. Seriously. I’ve been dating one for 3.5 years now. (On an a side-note, she also does tabletop and live-action RPG’s (and LARPs frequently have a competitive aspect to them). And she’s a comic geek.) ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/68 "2010-05-03T13:44:24Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Did you read my OP? I knew a lot of females who played WoW _constantly_ but were still bad at PvP, although I’m willing to acknowledge that if you break it down into “male vs. female players” and then “male ‘hardcore’ players vs. female ‘hardcore’ players” you are going to get an even bigger gap. This is a stupid baseline though, because spending a billion hours playing PvP WoW has exactly zero benefit to learning how to PvP well. You might as well say “I know tons of girls who played through the StarCraft single player campaign 140 times, but they all suck at multiplayer.” No freakin’ kidding? They might as well be different games. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/69 "2010-05-03T14:35:00Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > This is a stupid baseline though, because spending a billion hours playing PvP WoW has exactly zero benefit to learning how to PvP well. You might as well say “I know tons of girls who played through the StarCraft single player campaign 140 times, but they all suck at multiplayer.” No freakin’ kidding? They might as well be different games. Told. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/70 "2010-05-03T15:14:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > In fact, your attitude is precisely the problem. The idea that it’s okay to rag on people because they should have the guts to rag back–that’s the behavior of a bully. And a game full of bullies is definitely not fun. Where did I say it’s OK to rag on people? It’s just that it is what it is, and either you can handle yourself or you can’t. If you can’t, and then you proceed to find bizarre coping mechanisms in the realm of intentional deception, it’s a little weird. That’s all I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/71 "2010-05-03T15:21:04Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > This is a stupid baseline though, because spending a billion hours playing PvP WoW has exactly zero benefit to learning how to PvP well. You might as well say “I know tons of girls who played through the StarCraft single player campaign 140 times, but they all suck at multiplayer.” No freakin’ kidding? They might as well be different games. I assume you mean in your first sentence “_PvE_ WoW”? And that would be a fair enough point - but the thing is a lot of people who say they don’t even like PvP end up spending a lot of time doing it for the gear, so it’s not like they’re not trying to PvP at all. They’re just not any good at it. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/72 "2010-05-03T16:11:34Z")
> [@Mekhazzio](#): > > While competitive gaming is obviously going to be fairly male-dominated for assorted social reasons, you’d expect that to level off more towards the top end as the weight of numbers becomes less relevant in comparison to personal ability. I actually don’t think that’s right - **(alert: former liberal arts major talking out his ass)** - if you assume talent is normally distributed, wouldn’t the thin end of the tail where the ultra-competitive hang out be a lot further out for the (much) larger population of male competitive gamers? Another way of looking at it - if you assume 90% of players are crap compared to the 10% who aren’t; and that in that population there are 90% who are crap compared to the top 10%, and so on, then if you started with 100 times as many competitive male as female gamers, you’d expect there to be 10 male gamers who are better than any female gamer just by the weight of numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/73 "2010-05-03T17:10:49Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I assume you mean in your first sentence “_PvE_ WoW”? And that would be a fair enough point - but the thing is a lot of people who say they don’t even like PvP end up spending a lot of time doing it for the gear, so it’s not like they’re not trying to PvP at all. They’re just not any good at it. Whoops, yes, thank you. Typoes that completely change the meaning of a sentance: Story at 11. Anyway, I submit that people are unlikely to get good at something that they don’t enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/74 "2010-05-03T17:13:20Z")
Never mind. Airk confirmed what he meant so my post doesn’t matter. (Should preview.) ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/75 "2010-05-03T17:46:56Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I actually don’t think that’s right - **(alert: former liberal arts major talking out his ass)** - if you assume talent is normally distributed, wouldn’t the thin end of the tail where the ultra-competitive hang out be a lot further out for the (much) larger population of male competitive gamers? That’s just it though, I don’t think it would necessarily be a normal distribution on the female side. I figure that a female who’s that good at games would be far more likely to be playing them than those on the bell and thus would be overrepresented at the top end. The ability lends encouragement to jump the gender gap, so to speak. But yeah, armchair social psych with no data is about as useful as witnessing 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/76 "2010-05-03T18:04:07Z")
_wave_ Another female gamer piping in. I don’t play any PvP video games, at all. Not even Mario Party. And I do think that it has a lot to do with the way I was socialized, as a female in American society. The way I see it, if I play a PvP game, there are two options: 1) They win 2) I win. If they win, I get upset and feel bad about myself because I have attempted victory and failed at it. If _I_ win, on the other hand? I feel bad because I have (in my mind at least) made _them_ feel bad because _they_ have attempted victory and failed at it. So really, there’s no way to win, when I’m competing against someone else. I’m going to wind up feeling bad either way. The only way to win is not to play. Now, a lot of this may be attributed to an ex of mine, who while a pretty upright guy in most respects, was both a horrible winner (would crow about any victory of his for hours) and a horrible loser (when I won, he’d pout about it for hours). But \*\*\*CAUTION! GENERALIZATIONS COMING UP!! \*\*\* I think that it’s just an extreme case of a pretty uncontroversial statement about the way girls are socialized in this culture - we are taught to think of other people first, to think about their feelings first at the expense of our own, and so on. This is (I think) to help girls grow up to be better mothers, because when you’re a mom you _have_ to put the child’s needs above your own, especially during the infant years but to at least some degree up until adulthood. Empathy and competition are pretty oppositional. Boys are taught from childhood to compete, often at the expense of learning empathy; girls are taught empathy, so many of us never learn the “hard edge” of competition. Anyway, that’s MHO. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/77 "2010-05-03T18:22:49Z")
Makes sense **Oni**. It’s kinda nice not having to worry about the feelings of others. Glad I was born male. 😃 In fact maybe I’m a sadist, but I usually take _pleasure_ from the fact that I’ve made some trash-talking redneck kid feel bad by whipping his ass in a game (not that this is everyone who plays games, but there are far more than enough of them to go around). I feel like a hero for making things just a little more right in the universe. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/78 "2010-05-03T18:28:08Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Makes sense **Oni**. It’s kinda nice not having to worry about the feelings of others. Glad I was born male. 😃 > > In fact maybe I’m a sadist, but I usually take _pleasure_ from the fact that I’ve made some trash-talking redneck kid feel bad by whipping his ass in a game (not that this is everyone who plays games, but there are far more than enough of them to go around). I feel like a hero for making things just a little more right in the universe. I’m a douchebag when I’m in compete mode online. I know the feeling you’re talking about, **Riggy**. It’s Heaven on Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/79 "2010-05-03T19:13:36Z")
Another female gamer checking in. I am _highly_ competitive, but only in the areas that I consider important. I will work hard to better myself, practice my skills, and generally won’t go up against others “in the wild” until I’m reasonably sure I can hold my own. That said, I despise PvP. Right now, I’m terrible at it, but I’m sure I could be good if I put my mind to it. I choose not to, because in WoW, PvP tends to be dominated by the young male “trash talking” mentality that I find absolutely tiresome. PvE is where I’m at. I’m in one of the top progression raiding guilds on our server, and it’s very important to me that my DPS be competitive (I’m a mage). If it’s not, I get mad at myself, and try to figure out what I can change to make it that way. The other mage in the guild and I (he’s male) have a friendly rivalry going, and are constantly trying to outdo each other. I have never encountered any of the anti-female gamer thing that others have talked about. I’m sure it exists–I think it might be my personality and the way I present myself that discourages it. Online, I’m a guy. I play male characters, I express myself in a very “male” way (not crude at all–simply direct, without a lot of extraneous socialization). I tend not to reveal my gender until I get to know my guildmates–my previous guild was floored to discover I was female when I finally talked on Vent after about a year (I never said I was male–I just didn’t say at all. Since my character is male, they just assumed.) My current guild is great–it’s primarily a gay guild, which means the guys are too busy flirting with each other to bother me, and it’s very refreshing. I can be friends with them without having to worry that they’re reading too much into what I’m saying. But getting back to the original topic–yeah, I’m competitive and proud of it. I don’t care about making the other person feel bad, if I’ve won fair and square. I like to win. But PvP holds no interest for me at all. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944/80 "2010-05-03T19:15:56Z")
> [@winterhawk11](#): > > Another female gamer checking in. > > I am _highly_ competitive … I despise PvP. … I’m terrible at it Theory confirmed! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-males-better-at-competitive-gaming/537944.md?page=5)