# Why are Marines (US) not "soldiers"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 21, 2025, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254 "2025-09-21T06:31:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/161 "2025-09-24T17:39:51Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > > > I understand in the UK at one time surgeons would be offended by being referred to as a “doctor” and in fact would ask to be addressed as “mister” so-and-so, not doctor so-and-so. > > They still are called ‘Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms’. A slightly weird badge of honour They are under different regulatory bodies: > **[Royal College of Surgeons of England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_College_of_Surgeons_of_England)** > > The Royal College of Surgeons of England (RCS England) is an independent professional body and registered charity that promotes and advances standards of surgical care for patients, and regulates surgery and dentistry in England and Wales. The college is located at Lincoln's Inn Fields in London. It publishes multiple medical journals including the Annals of the Royal College of Surgeons of England, the Faculty Dental Journal, and the Bulletin of the Royal College of Surgeons of England. > The o... > **[Royal College of Physicians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_College_of_Physicians)** > > The Royal College of Physicians of London, commonly referred to simply as the Royal College of Physicians (RCP), is a British professional membership body dedicated to improving the practice of medicine, chiefly through the accreditation of physicians by examination. Founded by royal charter from King Henry VIII in 1518, as the College of Physicians, the RCP is the oldest medical college in England. > The RCP's home in Regent's Park is one of the few post-war buildings to be listed at Grade I. ... ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/162 "2025-09-24T18:05:28Z")
They are indeed, but that’s not the reason why surgeons aren’t called Dr. The Royal College of Physicians also only represents hospital drs, not GPs. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/163 "2025-09-24T20:12:53Z")
> [@robby](#): > > The U.S. Navy is headed by a four-star admiral. The U.S. Marine Corps is headed by a four-star Marine general. But both services are part of the Department of the Navy, which is headed by a civilian Secretary of the Navy (a political appointee). Which is further supported by the fact that there is no Marine Corps service academy. Graduates of the Navel Academy have the choice of becoming commissioned officers in the Navy or the Marine Corps. In fact about 1/3 annually choose to become Marine Corps officers. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2025, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/164 "2025-09-25T04:10:03Z")
> [@robby](#): > > (I notice, @TokyoBayer, that you consistently capitalize the word Marine in your last post. Why should Soldier be treated differently?) Because of convention, although it’s not absolutely followed by everyone. As an example, the National WWII Museum seems to follow the convention capitalizing “Marine” and not “Soldier.” [About the museum](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/about-us/our-team/museum-founders-stephen-ambrose-and-nick-mueller): > [@](#): > > Together, Ambrose and Mueller on June 6, 2000, brought to life The National D-Day Museum, an institution ultimately designated America’s National WWII Museum by a 2004 act of Congress. The museum is famous among WWII buffs, holding conferences, publishing articles and hosting guest speakers whose lectures are posted on YouTube. While they are not the final arbiters of style, their style reflects the usage by historians when discussing WWII. [Random example of “Marine”](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/let-george-do-it-marines-medal-guadalcanal) > [@](#): > > In response, the 1st Marine Division launched the first major American ground offensive of World War II. On August 7, 1942, troops stormed ashore at Guadalcanal, Tulagi, and other nearby islands in the remote Solomon chain. At first, the landings met relatively light resistance, and within two weeks, Marines had seized the unfinished airstrip (soon named Henderson Field in honor of a Marine aviator killed at the Battle of Midway in June 1942). Note the capitalization of “Marines” and none for “troops” despite the fact that the troops were US forces. [Random example of “soldiers”](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/topics/battle-bataan-death-march) > [@](#): > > The USAFFE were able to hold the Japanese successfully until December 1941. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, troops were placed on half rations. These soldiers had to make these sacrifices in order for forces heading into the Pacific to have supplies. Commanding General Douglas MacArthur understood what was going on and promised the Filipinos there would be extra troops, planes, and supplies coming to help them. > > Unfortunately, those promises never materialized, which left Filipinos largely defenseless in the wake of the Japanese. During the Battle of Bataan, troops suffered from disease, hunger, wounds, and deaths. By the time the Filipinos and the US troops finally surrendered on April 9, 1942, the Philippine scouts were in a very bad position. Note that both “soldiers” and "troops are lowercase, again despite the fact that the troops were US forces. Also note that “forces” are is also not capitalized. If this were a discussion among linguists, I’m in the descriptivist camp. Prescriptivists can argue whatever they would like, but this is not what is actually used. Also note that the convention of chapitalizing “Marines” in not universally adhered to, but I do not recall “soldiers” being capitalized. My WAG is that “Marine” and “Marines” when used to describe the troops are usually capitalized because they are closely related to “the Marines”, the institution, where “soldier” and “soldiers” is a completely different word than “the Army”, meaning the US Army. And that marks the end of my participation on this side discussion. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2025, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/165 "2025-09-25T04:37:15Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > (I notice, @TokyoBayer, that you consistently capitalize the word Marine in your last post. Why should Soldier be treated differently?) > > Because of convention, although it’s not absolutely followed by everyone. > > …While they are not the final arbiters of style, their style reflects the usage by historians when discussing WWII. > > …Note that both “soldiers” and "troops are lowercase, again despite the fact that the troops were US forces. Also note that “forces” are is also not capitalized. As was noted upthread, the _New York Times_ style guide and the _Associated Press_ style guide both dictate the capitalization of “Marine” but not “soldier.” This is likely why historians typically follow the same pattern, as you point out. However, the various branches of the military are the ones dictating that “Soldier,” “Sailor,” “Airman,” etc. be capitalized in their official communications. I was simply pointing out that if you are going to capitalize “Marine,” why not capitalize all service members for consistency and like their service branches apparently prefer? It seems a little odd that only “Marine” would be singled out for capitalization by convention. Finally, I’m not aware of anyone advocating for the capitalization of “troops” or “forces”. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/166 "2025-09-27T12:50:46Z")
> [@robby](#): > > However, the various branches of the military are the ones dictating that “Soldier,” “Sailor,” “Airman,” etc. be capitalized in their official communications. Do you believe that the style requests from all organizations be followed, or just ones from the US military? > [@robby](#): > > I was simply pointing out that if you are going to capitalize “Marine,” why not capitalize all service members for consistency and like their service branches apparently prefer? As said earlier, I’m following the same style as history books, as I’m used to it. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/167 "2025-09-27T13:53:43Z")
> [@TheTyrant](#): > > Squids gonna squid, you know. Early 1990s, I’m at an indoor soccer match to watch my cousin, a new Marine, play. Just a few minutes into the game he breaks his nose and we drive to some military medical facility for him to get treated. Naturally, we are having to wait. I, about 12 years of age, had heard my cousin disparagingly refer to the Navy as “squids” in the past, so I made some comment about how we were having to wait because of “all these squids”. I guess that’s a real insult, because I remember him telling my to be quiet, considering that Navy doctors were the ones treating him. He seemed pretty serious. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/168 "2025-09-27T14:00:55Z")
It isn’t a real insult, no more than jarhead. They’re ribbing terms and that is all. Now “Self-propelled sandbag” might not go over as well with some Marines. OK to use it among themselves, but us Squids and Snipes need to be more careful about using it, never mind Army or civvy. ---
**Author:** ![TheTyrant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thetyrant/32/19111_2.png) [@TheTyrant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTyrant)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/169 "2025-09-27T14:05:39Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > It isn’t a real insult, no more than jarhead. They’re ribbing terms and that is all. Yeah, it’s just some mild ribbing and all in good fun. _That being said,_ Moriarty does explain that his cousin was a **new** Marine and you _really_ shouldn’t be using them if you’re some fresh-out-of-boot nub. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/170 "2025-09-27T14:22:50Z")
IME, squid is a bit derogatory while jarhead not as much. People have tried using jarhead in a derogatory manner but it isn’t so bad. Now if one said dumb jarhead our stupid jarhead, obviously that’s different. In the broken nose story relayed by @Moriarty , the guy was there for some care and medical treatment so you want to avoid using squid in that scenario. You’re at their mercy, and how you’re treated can be more painful if they’re not careful. Yeah, don’t piss them off. Basic common sense. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/171 "2025-09-27T21:55:12Z")
Yeah, I learned early in my navy career that if there are Marines around you don’t mess with the cooks who feed 'em, the disbursing clerks who pay 'em, and the corpsmen who patch 'em up. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/172 "2025-09-29T04:08:30Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > However, the various branches of the military are the ones dictating that “Soldier,” “Sailor,” “Airman,” etc. be capitalized in their official communications. > > Do you believe that the style requests from all organizations be followed, or just ones from the US military? This is certainly not specific to the U.S. military. I’ve mentioned upthread that I have followed similar style requests from Scouting America (formerly Boy Scouts of America). But I’m a U.S. military veteran and a current Scout leader, so that perhaps makes me more inclined to follow the style requests of these particular organizations. (Although speaking as a veteran, it does also smack somewhat of pandering.) And while “all organizations” is a pretty broad characterization, I think I would have no problem _in general_ following various organizations’ style requests if I am made aware of them. > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > I was simply pointing out that if you are going to capitalize “Marine,” why not capitalize all service members for consistency and like their service branches apparently prefer? > > As said earlier, I’m following the same style as history books, as I’m used to it. Fair enough, that is certainly your prerogative. And while that is indeed the style of various news organizations (and “history books” according to you, although I’m not aware of any particular “history book style guide”), it is inconsistent if you think about it. Why is it that only “Marine” gets capitalized? For what it’s worth, according to this [blog post](https://archive.nytimes.com/afterdeadline.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/when-every-letter-counts/#more-733) from the _New York Times_, that news organization only started capitalizing “Marine” in 2009! ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/173 "2025-09-29T06:46:15Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Why is it that only “Marine” gets capitalized? A good question. I capitalize it but don’t capitalize soldier or sailor or airman. As to why that is, I have NFC, not the foggiest clue. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/174 "2025-10-01T09:59:29Z")
> [@robby](#): > > And while “all organizations” is a pretty broad characterization, I think I would have no problem _in general_ following various organizations’ style requests if I am made aware of them. It depends how difficult their requests are to follow. When the Mormons said they wanted to be called the Church Of Latter Day Saints, i said, “okay”, and referred to the organization as the Church Of Latter-Day Saints, or more often, the LDS Church. But when they said, “no, that’s not good enough, we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” , i said, “screw it, I’ll just call them Mormons.” ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/175 "2025-10-01T12:44:36Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > When the Mormons said they wanted to be called the Church Of Latter Day Saints, i said, “okay”, and referred to the organization as the Church Of Latter-Day Saints, or more often, the LDS Church. Oh! You missed the most important part! The name is the Church **of Jesus Christ** of Latter-day Saints. They ask: > [@](#): > > The official name of the Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The full name was [given by revelation from God to Joseph Smith in 1838.](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/115?lang=eng&id=4) > > - In the first reference, the full name of the Church is preferred: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” > - When a shortened reference is needed, the terms “the Church” or the “Church of Jesus Christ” are encouraged. The “restored Church of Jesus Christ” is also accurate and encouraged. > - While the term “Mormon Church” has long been publicly applied to the Church as a nickname, it is not an authorized title, and the Church discourages its use. Thus, please avoid using the abbreviation “LDS” or the nickname “Mormon” as substitutes for the name of the Church, as in “Mormon Church,” “LDS Church,” or “Church of the Latter-day Saints.” > - When referring to Church members, the terms “members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” “Latter-day Saints,” “members of the Church of Jesus Christ” and “members of the restored Church of Jesus Christ” are preferred. We ask that the term “Mormons” and “LDS” not be used. They initially asked not be be called Mormons some time back in the 00s. Then suddenly they spent millions of dollars promoting that name in a TV campaign from 2010 to 2018. I grew up Mormon. I see no reason to follow that request. (Also note that there is a difference between: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (can you spot the difference?) The former are the ones in Salt Lake City and the latter was a branch of Mormonism which died out.) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/176 "2025-10-01T22:03:09Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Oh! You missed the most important part! I think i said that > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But when they said, “no, that’s not good enough, we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” There was a period when Mormons i interacted with preferred the Church to be called the LDS Church, rather than the Mormon Church, and i tried to do that. It’s when they added “Jesus Christ”, and made the name really long and impossible to abbreviate in an easy way. I mean, the full name always included “Jesus Christ”, but the leadership made a fuss about how that was important to include whenever talking about their group. That’s when i gave up. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/177 "2025-10-01T23:21:10Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > There was a period when Mormons i interacted with preferred the Church to be called the LDS Church, rather than the Mormon Church, and i tried to do that. It’s when they added “Jesus Christ”, and made the name really long and impossible to abbreviate in an easy way. I was already out when the initial request came to stop using “Mormon” but I believe they preferred to be called by their full name, including Jesus Christ, but allowed the abbreviated LDS Church. Individuals may have been different but the church itself would never have allowed The Church of Latter-day Saints. Of course, I was already out by then. The only Mormons I talked to were my mother and other relatives, and a lifetime friend. For all of these, I just said “the Church”, because that was what Mormons use when talking to each other. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2025, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/178 "2025-10-10T14:45:35Z")
> [@robby](#): > > So if the U.S. Army wants its service members to be referred to as Soldiers, and the U.S. Marine Corps wants its service members to be referred to as Marines, and the Space Force wants its service members to be referred to as Guardians, I think that is their prerogative. _Shhhhh._ Or else you’ll get Hegseth and the anti-PC crowd all down on them for “identifying” as capital-S Soldiers and capital-M Marines. Seriously though; that might be a fantastic argument or analogy for how people identify and why it’s not politically correct BS. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/179 "2025-10-10T15:19:38Z")
> [@bump](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > So if the U.S. Army wants its service members to be referred to as Soldiers, and the U.S. Marine Corps wants its service members to be referred to as Marines, and the Space Force wants its service members to be referred to as Guardians, I think that is their prerogative. > > _Shhhhh._ Or else you’ll get Hegseth and the anti-PC crowd all down on them for “identifying” as capital-S Soldiers and capital-M Marines. > > Seriously though; that might be a fantastic argument or analogy for how people identify and why it’s not politically correct BS. Good point. Within the military, there’s nobody more insistent on their identity than a U.S. Marine. They even get annoyed if they are referred to as a “former” Marine—even if they just did a four-year active-duty stint decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2025, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254/180 "2025-10-11T07:28:59Z")
> [@bump](#): > > _Shhhhh._ Or else you’ll get Hegseth and the anti-PC crowd all down on them for “identifying” as capital-S Soldiers and capital-M Marines. I made that comparison above: > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yes, I’d call any member of any military group a soldier. I mean, after reading this thread, I’ll try not to, because it’s like misgendering people. But i would have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-marines-us-not-soldiers/1023254.md?page=10)