# Why are mathematical abilities associated with intelligence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 9, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910 "2008-11-09T16:32:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/21 "2008-11-10T12:53:25Z")
Well, I once knew a mathematician who could only be described as stupid (not to mention ignorant). He was not an especially good mathematician, but he did research and published it. But if you engaged him in a conversation on any other topic, you quickly realized that this was a fundamentally stupid person. On the other hand, I have known some highly cultured mathematicians. One thing about mathematicians, though, none of them will say to me that their worst subject was math, which is a typical response when you say you’re a mathematician. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/22 "2008-11-10T13:05:54Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > When a person is good at math, you always hear comments along the lines, “Gosh, he/she is so smart.” It doesn’t matter if they know nothing about biology, history, art, medicine, law, English, or economics. To most people, good at math = super smart. > > Is there a really a strong correlation between mathematical abilities and intelligence? Excellence at math is difficult to fake and it is easier to establish absolute standards. This lack of subjectivity in evaluation is quite different from deciding whose poem is lovely. As to your question about whether or not mathematical abilities correlate with intelligence: yes, they do. Take a difficult problem, for example: Land a man on the moon. The folks who did that were highly intelligent–it’s a difficult problem to solve. I’d venture to say (and lay off the “cite” crapola, wouldya?) the key figures involved in all of the really difficult problems (not counting “problems” such as managing people) were facile with math. Intelligence is necessary to grasp math. You can paste an isolated fact into an idiot’s brain and sometimes it will even stick. You cannot paste robust mathematical ability onto a person of average intelligence. This is not to say the ability to regurgitate lots of facts, or display linguistic facility does not also correlate with intelligence. The **Pedant** ’s mind is a dadburn attic of never-forgotten useless facts despite a math IQ of 50. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/23 "2008-11-10T13:59:36Z")
> [@Student\_Driver](#): > > I get to see it from both sides. I’m currently a dual math and philosophy major, and math/physics/engineering peers come to me for writing help, while liberal arts peers ask for tutoring help in math and statistics. Each side considers the other to be an arcane art (math guys usually will state discomfort with the “shades of grey” grading that comes into play when papers are judged-- they know their math is right or wrong, but feel like they’re aiming for a nebulous, arbitrary standard in prose; liberal arts folks seem to be uncomfortable with the deductive logic of math-- the idea of being 100% WRONG if they mess up a single detail of a proof or solution is a little daunting, while an inductive argument can still be persuasive even if some premises or inferences are suspect). Surely philosophy and mathematics aren’t that far apart? Loads of philosophers were mathematicians and visa versa: Russell, Hintikka, Quine, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/24 "2008-11-10T14:14:18Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > May other disciplines require more knowledge than intelligence - no matter how intelligent you are, you’ll never know when the battle of Hastings was if nobody has ever told you or you have never read it anywhere. You just have to know, or you won’t. Not necessarily true. I’ve heard Cecil once actually derived history from first principles. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/25 "2008-11-10T17:16:54Z")
> [@j666](#): > > I’m in the US, and it’s one of those little mysteries; everyone remembers that date, even if they don’t remember what the Battle of Hastings was. Another vote for an American (age 27) who knows it was 1066. It seems to be a standard trivia question around these parts. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/26 "2008-11-10T19:29:37Z")
> [@j666](#): > > I’m in the US, and it’s one of those little mysteries; everyone remembers that date, even if they don’t remember what the Battle of Hastings was. This, of course, is emblematic of the problems with the way schools work. And the more they rely on mindless memorization and decontextualized teaching (i.e. “reading classes”), the more likely that we will continue to be a nation of people who can (possibly) say when, but will be unlikely to know why. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/27 "2008-11-10T21:21:42Z")
For sure, people can be very intelligent without any expressed mathematical ability. OTOH people who can display mathematical ability, especially in abstract or esoteric matters, are generally viewed as “intelligent”. As already mentioned this ability to think and communicate using symbols, notation, and language that are foreign to most people, yet seem relevant to the real world, gives off an aura of intelligence. But we all know that intelligence in this sense does not necessarily mean street smart or even having a lot of common sense. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/28 "2008-11-10T21:29:08Z")
What, nobody is going to mention The g factor? Come on, people. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/29 "2008-11-10T21:35:50Z")
> [@](#): > > As already mentioned this ability to think and communicate using symbols, notation, and language that are foreign to most people, yet seem relevant to the real world, gives off an aura of intelligence. I think you’re confusing mathematics with the language that people use to communicate that mathematics in. IMHO, mathematicians are seen as smart not because they use esoteric symbols, rather because mathematics itself is so abstract. Being asked to reason about something that couldn’t possibly exist, or something you have absolutely no grounding with, etc., is what drives the stereotype, I think. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/30 "2008-11-10T21:55:15Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > I think you’re confusing mathematics with the language that people use to communicate that mathematics in. IMHO, mathematicians are seen as smart not because they use esoteric symbols, rather because mathematics itself is so abstract. Being asked to reason about something that couldn’t possibly exist, or something you have absolutely no grounding with, etc., is what drives the stereotype, I think. I don’t know about that. If a person does not communicate his math (in speech or writing) how can you tell that he has math ability? And once he/she starts communicating that’s when the association with intelligence occurs. I do grant that the notion of mathematician = abstract thinker is a key part of the stereotypical association with intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![yelimS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/54ee81/32.png) [@yelimS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yelimS)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910/31 "2008-11-10T22:25:16Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Excellence at math is difficult to fake Reminds me of [this](http://xkcd.com/451/). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-mathematical-abilities-associated-with-intelligence/471910.md?page=1)