# Why are meaningful names so rare in modern English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159 "2011-04-12T23:10:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/1 "2011-04-12T23:10:22Z")
Inspired by [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=604392). Many cultures in the modern and ancient world have personal names that mean something. A person’s given name might translate as mountain, or river, or courage and so on. In modern English, given names frequently mean something in foreign or ancient languages. Gaelic speakers might name their sons Darren, which means ‘hill’ (or so I’m told.) English speakers might copy the name, but very few of them will call their sons ‘Hill’ Why not? When and why did we stop doing this? I can’t think of many common meaningful names other than Dawn, Hope and Faith. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/2 "2011-04-12T23:28:50Z")
From the movie Silkwood: "For as long as anyone could remember, an old man in an Indian tribe had been responsible for naming the newborn children. One of the braves began to wonder how the old man managed to come up with the names he did; and one day the brave summoned his courage and went to the old man and asked him how he picked out a child’s name. The old man was silent for a while, then answered: “I look around me at my surroundings when I learn that a child has been born, and name that child appropriately. When I learned of your father’s birth, I heard a jackal howling in the woods, and so named him Howling Jackal. When your mother was born, I heard of it while standing by a running brook, so she was named Running Brook. Now, tell me why you want to know, Two Dogs Fucking. . . .” My name real name is Maverick and it has real meanings ranging from a stray cow to a cowboy type. I always liked it at least before Top Gun came out. ---
**Author:** ![Severynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Severynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Severynn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/3 "2011-04-12T23:47:45Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Inspired by [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=604392). > > I can’t think of many common meaningful names other than Dawn, Hope and Faith. Names themselves can be meaningful apart from their literal definition. For example, my Great-grandmothers name was Catherine and my grandmother decided to name my mother the same, in honor of her grandmother. Also my father was the third in line with his name, Xxxxx Xxxx III. So even if many people don’t use the literal dictionary definitions to pick names, they are still meaningful to the family. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/4 "2011-04-12T23:52:53Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I can’t think of many common meaningful names other than Dawn, Hope and Faith. Some of my favorite names are the virtues: Constance, Patience, Prudence, Grace, Charity, Chastity along with Faith and Hope as you mentioned. They come and go in popularity. I had a friend in Junior High whose name was Pine. I though it was beautiful, but she preferred to go by Barbi. Not everyone is comfortable with a meaningful name. Look at the ridicule that Gwyneth Paltrow received over her daughter Apple. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/5 "2011-04-12T23:52:55Z")
I suspect that the conquering of England by the Romans and then the Normans replaced meaningful names in English with meaningful names in Latin and French. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/6 "2011-04-13T00:02:28Z")
Plus until not too recently, names were almost all biblical. Even if those names were meaningful in the books’ original languages, they weren’t in English. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/7 "2011-04-13T00:07:32Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I can’t think of many common meaningful names other than Dawn, Hope and Faith. Thought of some more: Ivy, Rose, June, Cotton. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/8 "2011-04-13T00:07:56Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Plus until not too recently, names were almost all biblical. Even if those names were meaningful in the books’ original languages, they weren’t in English. I think this is it. After Christianity took hold, biblical names (especially saint’s names) were preferred, if not required. I can remember as recently as the early 60s, the local priest almost wouldn’t baptize my cousin because my aunt and uncle didn’t give him a saint’s name. He only relented because my cousin had a saint’s name for his middle name. Remember that your first name is, historically in English, your “Christian name”. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/9 "2011-04-13T00:14:07Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Plus until not too recently, names were almost all biblical. Even if those names were meaningful in the books’ original languages, they weren’t in English. English biblical names aren’t in the Bible’s original languages either. Almost all of them are translated either completely or by pronunciation into other languages. I am not sure what it means for a name to be of one language but there was no one by the name of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago. His name was Yeshua or something similar although this is just a phonetic interpretation with no strict spelling. If names can be said to be native to a given language, James, Matthew, Mark and others are as English as any other. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/10 "2011-04-13T00:26:01Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > English biblical names aren’t in the Bible’s original languages either. Almost all of them are translated either completely or by pronunciation into other languages. I am not sure what it means for a name to be of one language but there was no one by the name of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago. His name was Yeshua or something similar although this is just a phonetic interpretation with no strict spelling. > > If names can be said to be native to a given language, James, Matthew, Mark and others are as English as any other. Like many words in English, names were influenced by the Norman invasion and the French language. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/11 "2011-04-13T01:34:54Z")
In addition to the virtues and flowers that others have already mentioned, women also can get gem names, like Ruby or Pearl. And then there’s times of the year: April, May, June, Summer, Autumn. I’m not sure why it is, though, that women get so many more English-word names than men. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/12 "2011-04-13T02:04:45Z")
Agreed that there are \*some \*names that are English words. But most of them are not very common. I’ve never actually met anyone named Ruby, Pearl, Summer or Autumn. My question states that they are rare, compared to some other cultures, including historical England, not that they don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/13 "2011-04-13T02:54:02Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Some of my favorite names are the virtues: Constance, Patience, Prudence, Grace, Charity, Chastity along with Faith and Hope as you mentioned. They come and go in popularity. > > I had a friend in Junior High whose name was Pine. I though it was beautiful, but she preferred to go by Barbi. Not everyone is comfortable with a meaningful name. Look at the ridicule that Gwyneth Paltrow received over her daughter Apple. Grace seems to be continuously popular. I’ve known women of all ages, including recently born children, named Grace. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/14 "2011-04-13T03:11:58Z")
A lot of old english names had literal meanings or were compounds of old english words (Lyulph, for example, is a compound of the old english words for “flame” and “wolf”). When the Normans invaded they brought their language and their names with them. After several hundred years English reasserted itself as the dominant language but apparently they kept on using the invaders names - understandable if you’re Robert, son of Robert, son of Robert, etc. Ultimately I guess the convention of using common words from your own language as names was lost. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/15 "2011-04-13T03:17:25Z")
Oh there are plenty. Obviously you haven’t met many strippers/poor people. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/16 "2011-04-13T03:23:29Z")
If you are wondering about the etymology of a name, try here: [http://www.etymonline.com/](http://www.etymonline.com/) ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/17 "2011-04-13T03:45:59Z")
**Peter Morris** , one of my great-grandmothers was named Opal. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/18 "2011-04-13T04:26:20Z")
I always get a kick out of that scene in Pulp Fiction Esmeralda: What is your name? Butch: Butch. Esmeralda: What does it mean? Butch: I’m American, honey. Our names don’t mean shit. Which is funny precisely because “Butch” is the only character in the movie whose first name does have a (well-known and currently used) meaning. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/19 "2011-04-13T07:21:39Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Plus until not too recently, names were almost all biblical. Even if those names were meaningful in the books’ original languages, they weren’t in English. But quite a few names in the Bible flat out tell you what they meant. Plus, every baby name book I’ve seen seems to have the meanings of the names. Oh, and my sister’s middle name is Grace, and her first name means graceful. I, on the other hand, am named after my dad and a name he heard that he thought sounded cool. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/20 "2011-04-13T07:32:03Z")
from the book of knowledge in the 60s. noble english families assumed the names of their locales whereas more common englishmen took the names of their trades (which makes economic sense.) smith miller cartwright roper thatcher potter mason carpenter sawyer some names were descriptive: long short armstrong poor [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159.md?page=2)