# Why are meaningful names so rare in modern English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159 "2011-04-12T23:10:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SSgtBaloo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@SSgtBaloo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSgtBaloo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/21 "2011-04-13T07:46:31Z")
I’m flipping back and forth between this forum and another. In the other one, The topic is "jokes: > [@](#): > > Before I got married, I was dating two girls, Kate and Edith. Try as I might, I couldn’t pick between them. > > I guess I just wanted to have my Kate and Edith too. For a second I thought I was still in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/22 "2011-04-13T09:14:17Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I always get a kick out of that scene in Pulp Fiction > > Esmeralda: What is your name? > Butch: Butch. > Esmeralda: What does it mean? > Butch: I’m American, honey. Our names don’t mean shit. > > Which is funny precisely because “Butch” is the only character in the movie whose first name does have a (well-known and currently used) meaning. Other than Esmeralda, you mean? Well, ok, so it’s well-known and currently used in several languages other than English, but still, it doesn’t seem like it would be so difficult to figure out it means Emerald. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/23 "2011-04-13T09:33:55Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Not everyone is comfortable with a meaningful name. Look at the ridicule that Gwyneth Paltrow received over her daughter Apple. I wouldn’t be surprised if her contemporaries will be asking why she was named after the computer company - after all, say “blackberry” to a kid these days and I guarantee they won’t be imagining raiding summer hedgerows, basket in hand… ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/24 "2011-04-13T09:52:41Z")
I think **Severynn** is on the right track. As long as we have a tradition of naming people after people, names will continue to diverge from the language itself. The names themselves stay constant, but the language changes underneath them. It is noteworthy that, for instance, in the Old Testament of the Bible where many many names are given explicit meanings, they don’t name people after people pretty much ever (I think we had a thread about this once and managed to find about 2 instances, and they may well have been coincidence) In modern-day cultures, where names generally have dictionary meanings, do they also name people after people in the same culture? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/25 "2011-04-13T10:32:34Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Which is funny precisely because “Butch” is the only character in the movie whose first name does have a (well-known and currently used) meaning. I presume that Butch is a nickname rather than a given name. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/26 "2011-04-13T10:51:13Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > In modern-day cultures, where names generally have dictionary meanings, do they also name people after people in the same culture? Sure, but there’s a degree of overlap. For instance, my son’s name has run in my wife’s family for centuries - and also means “God’s healer” Hebrew names, both classical and modern, usually have some sort of meaning. For instance, here are translations of the names of some of the kids in my son’s preschool: Light Venus (the planet) Sparrow Pleasing My Light (a) Goddess Mica Cypress Maiden Buzzard World (in Aramaic) Date Palm Silk My Light (b) Lion of God Valley Sapphire Era Adornment Joy Sheaf Some of the above names are also Biblical, like Tamar (Date Palm) and Na’ama (Pleasing). ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/27 "2011-04-13T11:01:41Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Other than Esmeralda, you mean? Well, ok, so it’s well-known and currently used in several languages other than English, but still, it doesn’t seem like it would be so difficult to figure out it means Emerald. Well, I didn’t make the connection. Maybe I could have guessed what it meant if you’d told me it means something and then asked me to guess. In any case, an emerald is a thing, a green mineral, and yeah it may mean something, but really, it’s just a pretty name (did her parents hope she would grow up to be green?) 😛 Butch on the other hand is a character trait. And Butch the movie character is about as butch as you can get. Perhaps he could have been more butch if he was actually chewing on a cigar stub while he rode off on a chopper with his French girlfriend to skip the border to Mexico after killing his opponent in a professional boxing match and then, against his own interests, using a katana to go rescue his mob boss enemy from serial sodomists, because that’s the man code. But I doubt it. 😛 > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I presume that Butch is a nickname rather than a given name. In real life, it probably would be. But it’s the character’s name in the script. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/28 "2011-04-13T11:07:59Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Other than Esmeralda, you mean? Well, ok, so it’s well-known and currently used in several languages other than English, but still, it doesn’t seem like it would be so difficult to figure out it means Emerald. Oh, and obviously, she’s asking what his name means because she’s used to names meaning something , like hers does. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/29 "2011-04-13T11:09:25Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Sure, but there’s a degree of overlap. For instance, my son’s name has run in my wife’s family for centuries - and also means “God’s healer” > > Hebrew names, both classical and modern, usually have some sort of meaning. Would it be fair to say that Hebrew is a special case here because it has remained so unchanged for so long? At least, as I understand it modern Hebrew is basically the same as Biblical Hebrew so you could have a name invented as far back as a couple of thousand years ago still having meaning in modern Hebrew. That wouldn’t work for English. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/30 "2011-04-13T11:11:19Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Would it be fair to say that Hebrew is a special case here because it has remained so unchanged for so long? At least, as I understand it modern Hebrew is basically the same as Biblical Hebrew so you could have a name invented as far back as a couple of thousand years ago still having meaning in modern Hebrew. That wouldn’t work for English. That’s true, especially when you add modern Hebrew names - all of which were coined over the past century, most of them on the basis of regular Hebrew words. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/31 "2011-04-13T13:50:20Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Well, I didn’t make the connection. Maybe I could have guessed what it meant if you’d told me it means something and then asked me to guess. In any case, an emerald is a thing, a green mineral, and yeah it may mean something, but really, it’s just a pretty name (did her parents hope she would grow up to be green?) 😛 My usual guess when I meet an Esmeralda is that her parents were fans of Victor Hugo’s story; I think _his_ Esmeralda had green eyes (it’s been a while since I last read The Hunchback of Notre Dame, in a kiddified version). ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/32 "2011-04-13T14:04:43Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Which is funny precisely because “Butch” is the only character in the movie whose first name does have a (well-known and currently used) meaning. …and Lance. Can’t forget Lance. 🙂 dnr ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/33 "2011-04-13T14:05:05Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > I think **Severynn** is on the right track. As long as we have a tradition of naming people after people, names will continue to diverge from the language itself. The names themselves stay constant, but the language changes underneath them. There might be something to this. In Indian culture, there’s a taboo against giving someone a name that a close relative has. Names are also given with the literal meaning (often in Sanskrit) in the forefront of the discussion. When my brother and his wife were naming their children, there was much discussion among family members about the meanings of the candidate names and whether the meanings were “good.” My niece’s name was subject to a last-minute change when too many relatives objected to the original name chosen based on one of the possible literal meanings (which, if I remember correctly, was “disliked one”). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/34 "2011-04-13T14:57:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not sure why it is, though, that women get so many more English-word names than men. One of the most common names for little boys these days, in my neck of the woods, is “Hunter”. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/35 "2011-04-13T15:13:05Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > …and Lance. Can’t forget Lance. 🙂 > dnr Don’t be a Dick. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/36 "2011-04-13T16:06:02Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Inspired by [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=604392). > Many cultures in the modern and ancient world have personal names that mean something. Cite as to the frequency of meaningful names in various cultures? > [@](#): > > Gaelic speakers might name their sons Darren, which means ‘hill’ (or so I’m told.) [This site](http://www.meaning-of-names.com/gaelic-names/darrin.asp) says it means “great”. Also, neither “Darren” nor “Darrin” appeared in any of the top-Gaelic-names lists I could find. I don’t point this out to be obnoxious but rather to make a point. It is not my experience that other cultures and languages necessarily have more names that mean something. Rather, it is my impression that Americans _think_ that other cultures and languages have more names that mean something. These are just impressions, though, and hence my call for cites. When you hear a foreign word, you naturally want to anchor it in your mind by translating it into your native tongue. But, in my experience, the literal translation is just, “Ummm… it’s just a name. It doesn’t mean anything.” However, names often have historical or etymological “meaning”, and you might get that. For instance: someone might that the name Olivia means “olive tree”. But that is not the same as actually naming your kid “Olive Tree” or saying that you just planted an Olivia in the backyard. Similary: Sophia means “wisdom”. Stephen mean “crown”. Kevin means “handsom”. But “means” here doesn’t equate to “is directly translatable as”. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/37 "2011-04-13T17:26:38Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > English biblical names aren’t in the Bible’s original languages either. Almost all of them are translated either completely or by pronunciation into other languages. I am not sure what it means for a name to be of one language but there was no one by the name of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago. His name was Yeshua or something similar although this is just a phonetic interpretation with no strict spelling. > > If names can be said to be native to a given language, James, Matthew, Mark and others are as English as any other. Yeshua or Yeshiva. I think it evolved into “Joshua”. By the way, I understand Yeshua/Yeshiva was a pretty common name back in Jesus’ day. It’s as if Jesus’ name had been “John” or “Bob”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/38 "2011-04-13T19:59:13Z")
Quoth **Alessan** : > [@](#): > > Hebrew names, both classical and modern, usually have some sort of meaning. For instance, here are translations of the names of some of the kids in my son’s preschool: > > … > Goddess How does it come to pass that something meaning “Goddess” is a Hebrew name? Surely, the Hebrew people’s polytheistic days are too far past for a name to have held out that long in the culture. Is it from modern neopagan influences? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/39 "2011-04-13T21:50:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Alessan** :How does it come to pass that something meaning “Goddess” is a Hebrew name? Surely, the Hebrew people’s polytheistic days are too far past for a name to have held out that long in the culture. Is it from modern neopagan influences? Actually, that was a bit of a cheat - “goddess” in Hebrew is “Ella”, so the name can either be a Hebrewization of the English-language name, or it can be derived from the nickname for “Daniela” or “Michaela” or some such (because one generation’s nickname is the next generation’s proper name). Still, the fact that it \*has \*a meaning is important, even if was arrived at in a backward fashion. Israelis don’t like to give their kids meaningless names. Besides, “goddess” can be meant figuratively - after all, “Steadfast”, “Valor” and “Lightning” are popular Hebrew male names, so why can’t you say a girl is goddess-like? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159/40 "2011-04-13T22:08:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not sure why it is, though, that women get so many more English-word names than men. Unless the men have no arms and no legs. (As in the “What do you call a guy with no arms and no legs who…” jokes.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-meaningful-names-so-rare-in-modern-english/578159.md?page=3)