# Why are middle-aged white Americans dying/killing themselves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105 "2015-11-09T15:23:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/21 "2015-11-09T23:32:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Most academics in this country will be middle-aged whites . . . what is a “chronic painer”? In this case, a sufferer of chronic back pain, for whom the general suffering of the middle-aged (and possibly middle-aged caucasians in particular 🙂 ? ) is likely to be special enough to embark on a search for the cause… More generally, those with chronic pain for whom the suffering somehow defines their daily existence and typically overwhelms everything else. I should not be surprised to learn Dr Case had her interest focused (and perhaps alternate explanations diverted? ) by her own exposure to suffering. We are inclined to interpret the world through the lens of our personal experience. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/22 "2015-11-10T01:04:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Problem is it does not seem to be having this effect for working class non-whites. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They were not raised to expect as much out of life. Not only this, but there’s the whole “the higher they climb, the harder they fall” thing. The middle manager who gets laid off and can’t find work is going to suffer a bigger psychological blow than the menial laborer who is in the same boat. Getting evicted from an apartment is a different kind of experience from saying good-bye to the house you’ve owned for 20 years because of foreclosure. I work with (white) people who have never ridden a city bus before. Their eyes always get real big when I tell them that I ride it all the time. City buses are for poor people dressed in fast food uniforms, and they’re all (stage whisper) _black_. If my coworkers suddenly lost their cars due to repossession and were forced to take public transit, I really do think a lot of them would lose their minds. They’ve spent 40-50 years associating this form of transportation with people they believe to be inferior to them. Now imagine how crazy they would be if they were laid off from their white collar jobs, with only McDonald’s looking to hire them. Their entire identity would be crushed. Black people can go crazy like this too. If I had to start donning a McDonald’s uniform, I’d be a very unhappy camper. But most of us are just one or two generations from folks who scrubbed toilets from a living. And a lot of us are still scrubbing toilets, but we know we are decent human beings who deserve a fair shot in life–even if the system is rigged. I think white people are much more likely to believe the myths of rugged individualism, meritocracy, and fair world. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/23 "2015-11-10T01:04:37Z")
The psychology of happiness and life satisfaction is a little bit more complicated than rich = happy, poor = sad. You can be miserable moving into a new neighborhood because all the sudden you’re at the absolute bottom, whereas before you were rich for middle class. Some poor countries have higher happiness indexes than richer countries, for a variety of reasons. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How “at their expense”? Most recipients of public assistance are white (despite persistent mythology to the contrary). If you think you’re better than “those people” and suddenly find yourself on public assistance and asking family members for handouts year after year then that leads to a lot of self loathing. Are the suicides happening in any particularly kind of region? In places with increasing numbers of minorities, perhaps (“we’re losing the country” types)? Or in lilly white but isolated areas? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/24 "2015-11-10T02:32:00Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > All life is suffering; suffering is caused by wanting things you cannot have. _Citation needed_. Such a philosophy is if not properly qualified, fit only for slaves and serfs. > [@](#): > > America’s entire philosophy is based on unrestrained wanting. Our whole economy, our whole way of life - Our Dream - is based on wanting things. Only in its degenerated form caused by the excesses of postwar consumer culture and economic neoliberalism. The real American Dream has been the promise of progress and prosperity in an ordered community where one enjoys freedoms in exchange for one’s duties. > [@](#): > > There is nothing in our education to prepare us for the reality that we won’t actually get what we want. People should reasonably be able to want a job that enables them to afford the basic necessities of life and that their children can have a better standard of living than their own. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/25 "2015-11-10T04:50:59Z")
Take your pick: - Lack of real world interpersonal connectivity (how many of your neighbors do you know?) - Massive income disparity - Lack of any sort of job security, let alone any real training or career path - Adolescence extending well into people’s 30s - Lack of workers rights - Tension between religious beliefs and reason - Perpetual global conflicts - High education costs - Constant bombardment of unrealistic standards of beauty and “lifestyle imagery”. - Increasing competition for a decreasing number of high paying and prestigious jobs. - Constants barrage of idiotic “clickbait”, spam - Increasing social pressure to “fit in” ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/26 "2015-11-10T05:11:48Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > All life is suffering; suffering is caused by wanting things you cannot have. > > America’s entire philosophy is based on unrestrained wanting. Our whole economy, our whole way of life - Our Dream - is based on wanting things. There is nothing in our education to prepare us for the reality that we won’t actually get what we want. When we “want” things, we are attempting to live in the future. Never works out well. Better to live in the present, enjoy today. There is something special in everyday. and as you exit there is a jar on the table ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/27 "2015-11-10T06:15:39Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > When we “want” things, we are attempting to live in the future. Never works out well. > > Better to live in the present, enjoy today. There is something special in everyday. > > and as you exit there is a jar on the table Or perhaps we learn to plan for the future. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/28 "2015-11-10T06:59:45Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > _Citation needed_. Such a philosophy is if not properly qualified, fit only for slaves and serfs. It’s the first two of the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism > **[Four Noble Truths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths)** > > In Buddhism, the Four Noble Truths (Sanskrit: चत्वार्यार्यसत्यानि, romanized: catvāryāryasatyāni; Pali: cattāri ariyasaccāni; "The Four arya satya") are "the truths of the noble one (the Buddha),"\[a\]\[b\] a statement of how things really are when they are seen correctly.\[note 1\] The four truths are > The four truths appear in many grammatical forms in the ancient Buddhist texts, and are traditionally identified as the first teaching given by the Buddha.\[note 3\] While often called one of the most i... These are the Truths that Buddha is thought to have taught immediately up reaching Enlightenment. To sum up: 1. All of life of suffering. 2. Suffering is caused by craving things (including an end to cravings). 3. Suffering can be alleviated by ceasing to crave things. 4. The way to cease craving things is by following the Noble Eightfold Path - ie, Dharma, the way of cosmic truth. > **[Noble Eightfold Path](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path)** > > The Noble Eightfold Path (Sanskrit: आर्याष्टाङ्गमार्ग, romanized: āryāṣṭāṅgamārga) or Eight Right Paths (Sanskrit: अष्टसम्यङ्मार्ग, romanized: aṣṭasamyaṅmārga) is an early summary of the path of Buddhist practices leading to liberation from samsara, the painful cycle of rebirth, in the form of nirvana. > The Eightfold Path consists of eight practices: right view, right resolve, right speech, right conduct, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right samadhi ('meditative absorpti... It’s not about basic things, like wanting a job. Everything in American life is engineered to encourage Americans to get out there and acquire more stuff, Bigger stuff, shinier stuff than their neighbors. Our economy is built around selling more stuff to more people and our entertainment is arranged around encouraging people to want new stuff. Unfortunately, even though it makes our economy go round, the wanting of stuff is, in itself, a deeply discouraging mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/29 "2015-11-10T09:47:34Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > 1. Suffering can be alleviated by ceasing to crave things. > 2. The way to cease craving things is by following the Noble Eightfold Path - ie, Dharma, the way of cosmic truth. Ya gotta figger Gautama missed an obvious 5th truth: 1. Another way to cease craving things is to actually get them. The entire history of humanity suggests that the average vote is for wealth and not poverty, given the choice. The cosmic reality most people pursue is not some lame-ass eight-fold path to Enlightenment. It’s whatever path seems most likely to end up with the means to get Stuff. (Such as food, followed by shelter, followed by fun toys.) Religious philosophies to the contrary, most people for whom money doesn’t buy happiness simply have no idea where to shop. Enlightenment is pretty much the opiate of the poverty-stricken. And most of them are tired of being addicted. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/30 "2015-11-10T10:34:41Z")
Yeah but the thing is, when your whole life is centered on wanting, the getting itself is an anticlimax. Many people are so obsessed with the chase that the catch is just the point where they start looking for another thing to hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/31 "2015-11-10T11:03:31Z")
I haven’t researched, but there are probably many reasons why more in this age group may be killing themselves. I suspect one of them is linked to childlessness. Deep down we are programmed to have children. Offspring maintain us psychologically as we grow older; then it is grand-children. Once we reach a certain age and have no offspring there isn’t a hell of a lot to look forward to in life. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/32 "2015-11-10T12:15:27Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Ya gotta figger Gautama missed an obvious 5th truth: > > 1. Another way to cease craving things is to actually get them. Right, but people aren’t “getting them”. And I think it’s the cognitive dissonance between the lifestyle that’s being portrayed on the media vs reality is what’s driving people crazy. I mean how many times does a person need to be told that the reason they don’t have the fancy car and million dollar house is because they “aren’t working hard enough” before they believe it? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/33 "2015-11-10T12:33:28Z")
The problem with telling people to simply stop wanting things is that it ignores that feeling socially connected is not a luxury. And material possessions facilitate social connectivity nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/34 "2015-11-10T13:43:49Z")
Well, those over 50 probably had parents who experienced the Depression and WW2, and were raised with values that are contrary to modern society: frugality, personal responsibility, work ethic, manners/respect, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/35 "2015-11-10T13:48:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Right, but people aren’t “getting them”. And I think it’s the cognitive dissonance between the lifestyle that’s being portrayed on the media vs reality is what’s driving people crazy. > > I mean how many times does a person need to be told that the reason they don’t have the fancy car and million dollar house is because they “aren’t working hard enough” before they believe it? Worse: apparently, buying the right cologne will make you sexy, smart, young, and teleport you to a location with perfect weather, architecture, beaches and lots of sexy partners… but somehow, the cologne you pick (or the one you get as a gift) never seem to hit the spot. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/36 "2015-11-10T14:09:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Worse: apparently, buying the right cologne will make you sexy, smart, young, and teleport you to a location with perfect weather, architecture, beaches and lots of sexy partners… but somehow, the cologne you pick (or the one you get as a gift) never seem to hit the spot. Well, because you also have to combine it with driving the right model of car, drinking the right brand of beer, and electing the right party to office. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/37 "2015-11-10T14:20:35Z")
Damn, that’s complicated… does it involve stats? Now seriously, part of the problem is that we keep getting these fairy tales that tell us we ought’a be Successful (by certain definitions of success) by… what, 25? 23 is already old, the way some read; if we’re not we’re failures. I’m up to here of articles talking about someone completely exceptional as if everybody should be like that. If everybody was Bill Gates nobody would be assembling computers, if everybody was designing planes nobody would be flying them, but too often the narrative is that Success involves being a billionaire at the age at which one would actually and in the normal course of things be barely leaving college, and that if you haven’t you’re a failure. And that was for general and women’s mags: in the economics sections of newspapers you’re likely to be told that having a small business is not enough, not enough, not enough, any business smaller than the Coca-Cola Company is a failure! Why? Someone must have created all those small companies serving the big red-and-white logo all over the world… There’s people doing their best to make the little people feel like failures even when we’re actually in situations where we were happy until someone told us we weren’t doing enough; the impact of that kind of messages when you’re already feeling like a failure is definitely Not Helpful. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/38 "2015-11-10T14:28:00Z")
There’s been a constant drumbeat for decades now about how unhealthy we are. Are we now supposed to be surprised? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/39 "2015-11-10T14:59:11Z")
The overrepresentation of whites in entertainment and media might explain why feelings of inadequacy, disillusionment, and hopelessness disproportionately effect whites too. When you go to the movies, it’s not a bunch of black people you see living fabulous, picturesque lives full of cutesy little dramas and existential adventures. It’s white people who populate these fantasies. I suspect minorities are less likely to measure themselves against these American dream portrayals. But what is being lost in this discussion is the possibility that self-destructive behavior manifests itself differently depending on the demographic group. Perhaps middle-age whites struggling with despair and self-loathing are more likely to hurt themselves through drug abuse, antisocial behavior, and then eventual suicide. While blacks and other groups hurt themselves through drug abuse, antisocial behavior…and then wind up in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/40 "2015-11-10T15:36:14Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Take your pick: > > - Adolescence extending well into people’s 30s Wait, is that one bad? I kind of love being a 33 year old adolescent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105.md?page=3)