# Why are middle-aged white Americans dying/killing themselves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105 "2015-11-09T15:23:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/61 "2015-11-11T18:18:40Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > How many of these people can possibly exist? Honestly, this stereotype of people in their 30s always felt like Gen-Xers trying to stick it to Gen-Yers because we “sold out” but they never did. So clearly, anyone in their 30s is some weirdo with mommy issues who won’t grow up and be an adult. These “stereotypes” are based on actual demographic data of people getting married later in life, unemployment levels, underemployment levels, debt levels and other real metrics. And those numbers tell us a lot of those people exist. At least more than they did before. It has nothing to do with “being a weirdo with mommy issues”. It has more to do with economic factors that are delaying young people who actually want to start their lives from actually doing so. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/62 "2015-11-11T18:31:59Z")
[Relevant article.](http://www.salon.com/2015/11/11/the_decline_and_fall_of_white_america_inside_the_study_that_has_shocked_the_public_health_community/) > [@](#): > > Many explanations have been offered for the Hispanic paradox, including lower levels of smoking, stronger community networks, and the purportedly better health habits of less acculturated recent immigrants to America. Here I will offer another, which seems especially applicable to the data Case and Deaton present. > > The Hispanic paradox is essentially a paradox about social class. Why are Hispanics now enjoying better health outcomes than whites, and in particular drastically better health outcomes than whites of the same education and income levels? The answer, I suggest, has much to do with the very different social trajectories of the white and Hispanic working classes. > > While it is always dangerous to generalize about as diverse a group as American Hispanics, it is safe to say that much of the Hispanic working class in America is made up of families that immigrated relatively recently from Mexico and Central America. For these people, the United States is still a land of remarkable opportunity: a place where it is likely that they, and their children, will end up much better off than their families were in their countries of origin. > > For working class whites, by contrast, the situation is almost precisely the opposite. The members of the Other White America live in a world that, by most standard economic and cultural measures, has gotten worse for them than it was for their parents and grandparents. Working class whites and Hispanics may have similar income and education levels, but they are communities moving in starkly different directions. The starkly different direction the literal health of these two groups is taking is, it seems, a reflection of these larger patterns. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/63 "2015-11-11T21:13:30Z")
Because they know the political class, the cultural elites, dems, libs and progressives view them with disdain and contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/64 "2015-11-11T21:19:29Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Because they know the political class, the cultural elites, dems, libs and progressives view them with disdain and contempt. These blue collar white guys are kind of like bankers - except without all the money, status . . . prestige. . education. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/65 "2015-11-11T21:21:54Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Because they know the political class, the cultural elites, dems, libs and progressives view them with disdain and contempt. Why just the cultural elite? Its the entire plutocratic element of this country-be it the Wall Street investors getting companies they have shareholds in to “downsize” by eliminating or outsourcing thousands of jobs or the Hollywood comedian making jokes about how subhuman the inbred rednecks are. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/66 "2015-11-11T21:44:31Z")
Has anyone mentioned guns yet? Has the rate of gun ownership gone up among middle-aged white men since 1999? How about the rate of clinical depression? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/67 "2015-11-11T21:45:43Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Because they know the political class, the cultural elites, dems, libs and progressives view them with disdain and contempt. Yeah, like Wall Street and the bizcons and the 1% and the Pub establishment and blue-collar-pandering Trump view them any other way. The one candidate this cycle you can be sure **doesn’t** view the working class with disdain and contempt is Sanders, that lib-progressive elitist. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/68 "2015-11-12T00:48:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > These “stereotypes” are based on actual demographic data of people getting married later in life, unemployment levels, underemployment levels, debt levels and other real metrics. And those numbers tell us a lot of those people exist. At least more than they did before. How does any of that point to a rise in “prolonged adolescence”? Especially getting married later in life. That’s a choice, not a sign of a desire to stay forever 13. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/69 "2015-11-12T01:18:07Z")
Maybe **msmith’s** point is that people who want to get married and want “adult responsibilities” but are unable to achieve these things perceive themselves to be in a “prolonged adolescence”. There is still a big stigma to living with one’s parents after a certain age, and there has never been a time when being unemployed or underemployed was “cool”. Not in the USA, at least. But I’m doubtful that the increase in suicide is being driven by the economic angst of Millennials. Middle age is 35 to 65. **BrainGlutton** , that article is interesting and resonates with what I said before. We define success based on the status of our parents/family. If we can match or exceed that bar, we feel good about ourselves. If we don’t, we feel like a loser. ---
**Author:** ![Salvor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Salvor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salvor)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/70 "2015-11-12T23:52:55Z")
A theory I’ve heard and agreed with is that it has to do with family life. Lower marriage rates, more offloading of granny to homes, less children, less reason for sticking around. One of the reasons I think Hispanics stick around longer is that they probably have more extended families where abuelita moves into the house of the parents of a family, helps with raising and baby sitting and generally is given more of a “purpose” for existing than some decaying life in a home where the baby boomer generation dumps off their parents, or they are starting to get dumped off. Living without community and alone hurts, and I do worry that not having the same defacto religious community as a secular person, and a gay guy at that who’s not in a relationship will affect my longevity. But I still have some time to fix the latter, but the clock is ticking, 33 now and in the gay world it’s kind of a logans run scenario where people have expiration dates to a lot of prospects. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/71 "2015-11-13T02:57:15Z")
The thing I wonder is, does anyone outside of their class really care much about their fate, whether they live or die etc. I remember in school the stark divide between the middle /upper middle class kids and the lower track kids. The former group thought of the latter group as almost beneath contempt for the most part. Not much of that has really changed as people have gotten older either. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/72 "2015-11-13T12:05:47Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > A theory I’ve heard and agreed with is that it has to do with family life. Lower marriage rates, more offloading of granny to homes, less children, less reason for sticking around. > One of the reasons I think Hispanics stick around longer is that they probably have more extended families where abuelita moves into the house of the parents of a family, helps with raising and baby sitting and generally is given more of a “purpose” for existing than some decaying life in a home where the baby boomer generation dumps off their parents, or they are starting to get dumped off. > > Living without community and alone hurts, and I do worry that not having the same defacto religious community as a secular person, and a gay guy at that who’s not in a relationship will affect my longevity. But I still have some time to fix the latter, but the clock is ticking, 33 now and in the gay world it’s kind of a logans run scenario where people have expiration dates to a lot of prospects. I agree with all this. There really is no family sense in today’s white America. It seems everyone expects their own little piece of the world. There isn’t that sense of community and extended family where a person’s presence is valued as much as their economic contributions. White America means working, working, working, fart out kids, get divorced, kids grow and leave, you keep working. Then what, retire alone? Retire with a mate? But chances are you won’t have funds to do anything in retirement except eke out a very basic existence. Whatever happened to the extended family? Whatever happened to retiring and staying with that family to help with the kids and the household? For some weird reason, it is considered a bad thing if the old generation goes to live with the young. It’s actually all pretty bleak. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/73 "2015-11-13T15:36:48Z")
**More a rural issue?** The points made in this thread - mainly that middle-aged White males are more likely to have experienced the economic downturn with more psychological despair than many other groups for various reasons (more perceived loss of status; loss of past previous optimism that things will get better for them; increased fragmentation of extended family and other social support systems; etc.) - have all been very well made. I think that middle-aged men fairly commonly are taking stock of where they are in life and comparing themselves to where their fathers were … a perception that they have significantly dropped down the SES ladder with little hope of climbing farther up in the future is pretty hard to swallow. We men do not only compete with each other, deep underneath we are competing with our dads too. And for many losing that competition badly. Still I wonder if this is so much a White/Black divide as a Rural/Urban one with race mostly being a marker for that. Long term trends demonstrate a [widening rural/urban divide](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3978153/) for deaths from all causes and specifically in [male suicide](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447208/) rates. > [@](#): > > … Mortality rates increased with increasing levels of rurality for the total population and for non-Hispanic whites, blacks, and American Indians/Alaska Natives … Poverty levels only partially accounted for rural–urban differences in all-cause and premature mortality > [@](#): > > … A number of studies have shown that rural areas tend to have higher suicide mortality rates than urban areas.12,14–16 Besides physical and social isolation and limited opportunities for social interaction and networks in rural areas, a number of other societal factors, such as unfavorable changes in the demographic structure and socioeconomic and industrial activity that causes social instability and disruption, have been cited as possible reasons for comparatively higher suicide rates in rural areas … > > … For men, suicide rates were generally higher in more rural areas than in urban areas, especially for the more recent time periods. For the periods 1980 to 1984, 1985 to 1989, 1990 to 1994, and 1995 to 1997, the male suicide rate for the most rural county group was respectively 21%, 26%, 37%, and 54% higher than the rate for the most urban county group. The rural–urban gradient for males, measured by the regression slope of county-level age-adjusted suicide rates on the rural–urban continuum, was positive and statistically significant for each time period except 1970 to 1974, suggesting rising suicide rates with increasing levels of rurality. Moreover, the size of the rural–urban gradient increased consistently across time, indicating widening rural–urban differentials in male suicide mortality. … > > … Men had substantially higher suicide rates than women in each county group and time period. However, sex differentials in suicide mortality appear to have increased over time in almost all county groups. For example, the suicide rate was 5 times greater in 1970 to 1974 and 6.7 times greater in 1995 to 1997 for men than for women in the most rural county group. The suicide rate was 2.3 times greater in 1970 to 1974 and 4.3 times greater in 1995 to 1997 for men than for women in the most urban county group. … > > … Both rural and urban areas have experienced profound social and demographic changes during the past 3 decades. However, these changes have affected rural areas much more adversely than urban areas. Our own analysis of the 1970 to 1990 census and vital statistics data (not presented here for the sake of brevity) indicates that a variety of social integration and demographic factors are substantially correlated with county-level suicide rates in each of the 6 time periods … There is also [this from the CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_02/sr02_166.pdf). > [@](#): > > In 2008–2010, the death rate for adults aged 25–64 was lowest in fringe counties of large metro areas and increased steadily as counties become more rural … [More about suicide](https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures) … specifically note that the highest rates are in rural states, the lowest in heavily urban states, and by firearms (which are disproportionately owned by White rural males). > [@](#): > > In 2013, nine U.S. states, all in the West, had age-adjusted suicide rates in excess of 18: Montana (23.7), Alaska (23.1), Utah (21.4), Wyoming (21.4), New Mexico (20.3), Idaho (19.2), Nevada (18.2), Colorado (18.5), and South Dakota (18.2). Five locales had age-adjusted suicide rates lower than 9 per 100,000: District of Columbia (5.8), New Jersey (8.0), New York (8.1), Massachusetts (8.2), and Connecticut (8.7). … In 2013, firearms were the most common method of death by suicide, accounting for a little more than half (51.4%) of all suicide deaths. The middle aged cohort also contains lots of [veterans](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448531/). > [@](#): > > … Rural veterans were more likely to be male and White but less likely to be employed … Unadjusted physical and mental health summary scores were significantly lower for veteran respondents who lived in rural settings than for those who lived in suburban or urban settings …For those who provide care to rural veterans, these findings offer supportive evidence that living in a rural setting is associated with a worse health-related quality of life. TL;DNR? Rural America is in deep shit. White males in particular there are more commonly angry and despairing and they have both increased access to cheap drugs (meth and heroin) and easy access to effective means to end it while little access and little eagerness to utilize the mental health resources that might possibly help. It is a long term trend, not new, more from the 70s on, but increasing for a variety of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Sendil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sendil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sendil)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/74 "2015-11-14T09:07:59Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **More a rural issue?** > > The points made in this thread - mainly that middle-aged White males are more likely to have experienced the economic downturn with more psychological despair than many other groups for various reasons (more perceived loss of status; loss of past previous optimism that things will get better for them; increased fragmentation of extended family and other social support systems; etc.) - have all been very well made. I think that middle-aged men fairly commonly are taking stock of where they are in life and comparing themselves to where their fathers were … a perception that they have significantly dropped down the SES ladder with little hope of climbing farther up in the future is pretty hard to swallow. We men do not only compete with each other, deep underneath we are competing with our dads too. And for many losing that competition badly. > > Still I wonder if this is so much a White/Black divide as a Rural/Urban one with race mostly being a marker for that. > > Long term trends demonstrate a [widening rural/urban divide](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3978153/) for deaths from all causes and specifically in [male suicide](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447208/) rates. > > There is also [this from the CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_02/sr02_166.pdf). > > [More about suicide](https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures) … specifically note that the highest rates are in rural states, the lowest in heavily urban states, and by firearms (which are disproportionately owned by White rural males). > > The middle aged cohort also contains lots of [veterans](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448531/). > > TL;DNR? > > Rural America is in deep shit. White males in particular there are more commonly angry and despairing and they have both increased access to cheap drugs (meth and heroin) and easy access to effective means to end it while little access and little eagerness to utilize the mental health resources that might possibly help. It is a long term trend, not new, more from the 70s on, but increasing for a variety of reasons. Here’s data by for all 50 states and D.C., for midlife white mortality rates 1999-2013: > **[Midlife mortality rates for non-Hispanic whites by state, 1999-2013](http://economicssendil.blogspot.com/2015/11/midlife-mortality-for-non-hispanic.html)** > > My thoughts on social and economic trends and developments around the world. On a side note, you can use the site [CDC Wonder](http://wonder.cdc.gov/mcd-icd10.html) to find and document the changes in mortality rates (for midlife whites, ofc) for rural, suburban, and urban areas, instead of speculating. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/75 "2015-11-14T18:49:09Z")
Okay. Played with CDC Wonder a bit. Thanks for the link. 1999 per 100K suicide rates for White 45 to 54 years old using the closest available urbanization score ranged from a low of 20.8 in large metro fringe to 27.7 small metro. Large metro was 26.9 and non-metro was 25.1. 2013 using closest available urbanization score had large metro increasing by 40% to 37.4 and _non-metro increasing by 72% (!)_ to 43.2. Fringe large metro had virtually no change. The transition from medium metro to small metro seemed to be the tipping point with small metro, already at the top, increasing by 64% and keeping its lead at 45.0. Unable to control by education level in that tool and too few reported rural Black suicides to make trend comparisons. So indeed much bigger increase in suicides among White 45 to 54 yo males in rural districts than large metro and virtually no increase in fringe large metro. But without being able to control for education level not sure it provides more solid evidence to my hypothesis as it could merely be a result of the college educated being highest in fringe, less in large metro, and least in rural to small metro. That said it is definitely true that on a per 100K basis many more middle aged White males are killing themselves in small metro to rural than are in medium metro, large metro and large metro fringe (with the latter the lowest by far currently). ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/76 "2015-11-14T19:43:46Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Are we to infer that, in the US, the racial situation has become substantially more equitable - akin to that in South Africa after the end of Apartheid - since 1999? 😕 > > I would have thought that the big “jump” in this respect was with the Civil Rights movement. But if that were the trigger, suicide rates among Whites would be higher decades ago, not now. What of significance has happened since 1999? South Africa is certainly socially and politically more equitable than in 1994, but not a whole lot more economically equitable, at least for Black people. The white-Black income gap is only a bit smaller than it used to be. (The white vs. Indian gap is _much_ smaller though: Indians have been the big winners since 1994). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/77 "2015-11-15T21:16:01Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Are we to infer that, in the US, the racial situation has become substantially more equitable - akin to that in South Africa after the end of Apartheid - since 1999? 😕 > > I would have thought that the big “jump” in this respect was with the Civil Rights movement. But if that were the trigger, suicide rates among Whites would be higher decades ago, not now. What of significance has happened since 1999? Nothing. It just took a while for the white privilege to wear off. It had been wearing off for a while and little by little it caught up to us. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/78 "2015-11-16T00:32:29Z")
Trying to find some international context and [this article](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10647018/Suicide-generation-fears-for-middle-aged-men.html) is interesting. > [@](#): > > A generation of middle aged men whose working lives have been book ended by recession are now almost two and half times as likely to commit suicide as the rest of the population, official figures suggest. > While the number of people taking their own lives in the UK has fallen significantly in recent years across other age groups, it has surged among men in their 40s and 50s. > The same generation – born between the early 1950s and early 1970s – were at the centre of concern about high suicide rates among young men 20 years ago. > Experts said that the decline of heavy industry in the 1980s and early 1990s, and major social changes affecting the workplace and family, appeared to have combined to put the generation at particular risk. > New figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the total number of men aged between 45 and 59 taking their own lives was almost 40 per cent higher in 2012 than it was less than a decade earlier. … > > … Prof O’Connor, who leads the Suicidal Behaviour Research Laboratory at Glasgow University, said … “We think there is a generational effect going on. > He said the loss of traditional roles of male breadwinners, particularly in communities once dependent on male dominated industries, appeared to be part of the explanation. > But he added that changing habits, including a greater openness among women and younger men to talking about problems and seeking help, had passed many middle aged men by. > “Middle aged men are caught between two generations – when you look at their own models, their fathers, it was about not talking about their emotions,” he said. > “But when you look at their sons, they are much more at ease with talking about their emotions and seeking help. > “Society has moved on but middle aged men are not as equipped as they should be with dealing with changes in their role in society.” … Could be talking about middle aged White American males just as easily … [In Japan](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-33362387) (considering up to 44 as “young”: > [@](#): > > The fastest growing suicide demographic is young men. It is now the single biggest killer of men in Japan aged 20-44. > And the evidence suggests these young people are killing themselves because they have lost hope and are incapable of seeking help. > The numbers first began to rise after the Asian financial crisis in 1998. They climbed again after the 2008 worldwide financial crisis. > Experts think those rises are directly linked to the increase in “precarious employment”, the practice of employing young people on short-term contracts. … Technology may be making things worse, increasing young people’s isolation. … Mental illness is still very much a taboo here. There is little popular understanding of depression. Those suffering its symptoms are often too scared to talk about it. You could replace Japan and Asian with American and rural really have the same article pretty much apply. Hard to place it on loss of White privilege. From I can read it seems to be a very common theme in many countries. I wonder if the question be better asked as to what seems to relatively protect self-identified Latino and Black American middle aged males from the rise. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/79 "2015-11-16T15:31:49Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **More a rural issue?** > > The points made in this thread - mainly that middle-aged White males are more likely to have experienced the economic downturn with more psychological despair than many other groups for various reasons (more perceived loss of status; loss of past previous optimism that things will get better for them; increased fragmentation of extended family and other social support systems; etc.) - have all been very well made. I think that middle-aged men fairly commonly are taking stock of where they are in life and comparing themselves to where their fathers were … a perception that they have significantly dropped down the SES ladder with little hope of climbing farther up in the future is pretty hard to swallow. We men do not only compete with each other, deep underneath we are competing with our dads too. And for many losing that competition badly. > > Still I wonder if this is so much a White/Black divide as a Rural/Urban one with race mostly being a marker for that. > … > Rural America is in deep shit. White males in particular there are more commonly angry and despairing and they have both increased access to cheap drugs (meth and heroin) and easy access to effective means to end it while little access and little eagerness to utilize the mental health resources that might possibly help. It is a long term trend, not new, more from the 70s on, but increasing for a variety of reasons. I think that’s largely a function of our winner-take-all society. If you have the education, ability and motivation to endure a “big city” job (finance, high tech, business, etc) you tend to do ok. But it seems to me there are fewer and fewer “middle class” jobs. Forget manufacturing and heavy industry. When I visit these big office parks in the middle of the country, they all seem like they are consolidating roles and creating “centers of excellence” outside of big cities. That typically means your mid-level office job is either being eliminated or sent somewhere else. And even people who have those high paying “city jobs” (like me) don’t have it particularly easy. We have to live in very expensive parts of the country, those jobs often are high stress with lots of travel and little to indicate whether you are doing a “good job” outside of the whim of your boss (who you may see once a month). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105/80 "2015-11-16T15:49:16Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > I agree with all this. > > There really is no family sense in today’s white America. It seems everyone expects their own little piece of the world. There isn’t that sense of community and extended family where a person’s presence is valued as much as their economic contributions. Well, there is, perhaps, in the **upper** class, the really-big-money families and the old-money _Social-Register_-material families. But working-class and middle-class and upper-middle class whites really cannot identify themselves with anything like a “house” or “clan” or “dynasty,” and “family” alone is apparently not good enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-middle-aged-white-americans-dying-killing-themselves/737105.md?page=3)