# Why are orange cats more likely to be male, but not black cats?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 1, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675 "2017-05-01T23:54:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/1 "2017-05-01T23:54:14Z")
Orange cats tend to be male, more often than not. This is because black fur and orange fur are both X-linked. So a male that gets one orange-X is gonna be orange, but a female that gets an orange-X might be orange or might be calico, depending on whether her other X is orange or black. So sayeth the books and websites, and mostly that makes sense. But… What about black cats? Black females also need to be homozygous. Shouldn’t the same mechanism also give black cats the same lopsided sex ratio? No one ever says, “That cat is black, he’s probably a tom”, at least not that I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/2 "2017-05-02T00:18:01Z")
FWIW, Creamsicle is orange-and white, and is female. Tonka is black (including the pads of his feet and the roof of his mouth), and is male. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/3 "2017-05-02T00:26:37Z")
I’ve had two orange cats, both male, one calico and one tortie, both female, and two black, both female. I think I remember reading somewhere that black and white cats, with equal parts of black and white, tend to be male. We had one when I was a kid who was male. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/4 "2017-05-02T01:00:02Z")
The blacking gene appears to be dominant but not sex-linked: > **[Cat coat genetics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_coat_genetics)** > > Cat coat genetics determine the coloration, pattern, length, and texture of feline fur. Understanding how can be challenging because many genes are involved. The variations among cat coats are physical properties and should not be confused with cat breeds. A cat may display the coat of a certain breed without actually being that breed. For example, a Neva Masquerade (Siberian colorpoint) could wear point coloration, the stereotypical coat of a Siamese. > The browning gene B/b/bl codes for TYRP1 ... [http://fanciers.com/other-faqs/color-genetics](http://fanciers.com/other-faqs/color-genetics) Typical European wildcats sport a tabby pattern, but these are threatened by human interference and breeding with domestic cats. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/5 "2017-05-02T01:10:59Z")
Every black cat I’ve had has been male. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/6 "2017-05-02T01:36:48Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > The blacking gene appears to be dominant but not sex-linked: > > [Cat coat genetics - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_coat_genetics) > > [http://fanciers.com/other-faqs/color-genetics](http://fanciers.com/other-faqs/color-genetics) If brown and grey are merely variations on the black, then my question not only still stands, but now also applies to brown and grey cats. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/7 "2017-05-02T02:24:13Z")
The gene responsible for giving orange fur _O_ is sex-linked, found on the X chromosome. Males have only one X chromosome and thus have only one allele of the gene; hence _O_ will give orange fur and _o_ will give non-orange fur. Females have two X chromosomes and thus have two alleles; _OO_ gives orange fur, _oo_ give non-orange, while _Oo_ results in a tortoiseshell pattern where some parts are orange and other parts are non-orange. The black gene _B_ is not sex-linked. Its recessive allele _b_ causes brown. There’s a variant _b[sup]l[/sup]_ for light brown. The orange color, if present, completely replaces black. Hence a male cat _BB_ which would otherwise be black would show orange if it has the _O_ allele. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/8 "2017-05-02T04:23:55Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > If brown and grey are merely variations on the black, then my question not only still stands, but now also applies to brown and grey cats. Tables 4 and 8 in Robinson appear to bear out your assertion that no possible pairing can produce more black females than males, and therefore among the black variants more individuals must be male, but I feel like we are missing crucial information about the actual prevalence of the different alleles in the population in question before we can say how many more. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/9 "2017-05-02T04:55:57Z")
As noted the black gene _isn’t_ sex-linked, so their shouldn’t be any confusion on that front. The proportion of orange cats skews male due to it being sex-linked, but it skews _more heavily_ male than it should and that is down to the position of the relevant gene on the X chromosome. Basically if the orange gene is in play a male _should_ have a 1 in 2 chance of being orange - either it has the dominant orange gene on the X chromosome or it doesn’t ( either O=orange or o=not orange ). A female though should have a 1 in 4 chance of being orange - ( OO=orange, Oo=calico, oO=calico or oo=not orange ). With those odds you should get roughly 2 male orange cats for every female. But it doesn’t actually work like that, because due to its odd position on the X chromosome as above, it is more than usually vulnerable to being damaged during meiosis which serves to winnow out the chance of getting an intact copy. So what _actually_ happens given the presence of the orange gene in a parent is a 3 in 10 shot at an orange male and a 1 in 10 shot at an orange female. Leading to 3/4 of orange cats being toms. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/10 "2017-05-02T05:04:20Z")
What proportion of black (brown, grey, etc.) cats are toms? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/11 "2017-05-02T05:13:23Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > What proportion of black (brown, grey, etc.) cats are toms? Since it isn’t a sex-linked characteristic, it should be roughly 50/50 far as I know. But I may not know very far :). Cat color genetics can get rather complex with various exceptions and overrides and as much as I’ve dug into the topic out of curiosity, I’m pretty sure I still don’t have it all down. Heck, I think there are three completely different ways of getting a seemingly pure white cat and the least likely of those ( albino ) comes with various sub-iterations ( i.e. incomplete blue-eyed vs. red-eyed ). ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/12 "2017-05-02T12:50:53Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > The gene responsible for giving orange fur _O_ is sex-linked, found on the X chromosome. Males have only one X chromosome and thus have only one allele of the gene; hence _O_ will give orange fur and _o_ will give non-orange fur. Females have two X chromosomes and thus have two alleles; _OO_ gives orange fur, _oo_ give non-orange, while _Oo_ results in a tortoiseshell pattern where some parts are orange and other parts are non-orange. > > The black gene _B_ is not sex-linked. Its recessive allele _b_ causes brown. There’s a variant _b[sup]l[/sup]_ for light brown. The orange color, if present, completely replaces black. Hence a male cat _BB_ which would otherwise be black would show orange if it has the _O_ allele. Okay, let me be more specific. O is orange, o is not-orange. O and o are both found on the X chromosome. Most orange cats are male. Why aren’t most not-orange cats male? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/13 "2017-05-02T13:00:49Z")
Among our barn cats, the two black ones are male, and the one orange one is female. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/14 "2017-05-02T13:16:08Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Every black cat I’ve had has been male. Do you \*really \*check every black cat for balls? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/15 "2017-05-02T13:38:58Z")
My lil’ molly Cockroach is all black (the clowder queen is a grey/white) … toms are smokey, black/white and wildcat … and my torty is a molly … From all the posts so far here … I think it’s fair to say that cats are either male or female no matter their fur color … Before you flame me for naming my cat Cockroach, keep in mind that’s just her Summertime Daylight Savings Name … in Winter she’s called Gypsy … ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/16 "2017-05-02T16:03:56Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > O is orange, o is not-orange. O and o are both found on the X chromosome. Most orange cats are male. Why aren’t most not-orange cats male? You mean not-orange, not-tortoiseshell. A very naive calculation would give 2/3 male, 1/3 female, but that is like counting spherical cows. Just for instance, an Oo female might appear black because no orange patches happen to form. (And is it really so fair to say that all cats are either male or female without mentioning possibilities like XO, XXY, and mosaics?) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/17 "2017-05-02T16:15:20Z")
Also, the wild type is not-orange, so how common is this orange allele anyway? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/18 "2017-05-02T16:42:25Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > O is orange, o is not-orange. O and o are both found on the X chromosome. Most orange cats are male. Why aren’t most not-orange cats male? Because gender is approximately evenly distributed? If most orange cats were male _and_ most not-orange cats were male, then most cats would be male. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/19 "2017-05-02T16:42:32Z")
I think the obvious answer to why orange cats are more likely to be male than black cats is that it’s impossible for an orange cat to be a black cat. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675/20 "2017-05-02T17:57:12Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Okay, let me be more specific. > > O is orange, o is not-orange. O and o are both found on the X chromosome. Most orange cats are male. Why aren’t most not-orange cats male? I’m having a hard time sussing out your reasoning here ( not a jab, I’m just easily confused 🙂 ). To restate: Orange cats - ~3/4 male as described above, due to linkage on the X chromosome. Calico cats - almost 100% female for the same reason. You need to XX chromosomes to form a mosaic with orange, which only is possible with females and rare, usually sterile Klinefelter’s Syndrome males ( XXY ). All other cat colors - no sex linkage to color. So since [Fisher’s Principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher%27s_principle) describes the sex ratio in most mammals, presumably all other colors should be more or less randomly distributed at a roughly 1:1 distribution of males to females. Some colors might be more or less common, but they should be more or less common at an even sex ratio. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-orange-cats-more-likely-to-be-male-but-not-black-cats/785675.md?page=2)