# Why are people acting like a Biden win in November will defeat fascism, and not AT BEST, delay it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2024, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994 "2024-06-17T19:33:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/121 "2024-06-19T21:02:13Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > As we’re talking about the danger of fascism in the US, that’s one organization we need to be wary of. The Heritage Foundation are the prime mover behind [Project 2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) (which I mentioned unthread). Their scheming wrt SCOTUS goes way past abortion - their goal is to have a SCOTUS which will support their extreme unitary executive theory - a constitutionally validated dictatorship. And let’s be clear - the person to blame is not Trump, it’s Mitch McConnell (with an own-goal by RBG). ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/122 "2024-06-19T23:47:06Z")
Whether one considers a state fascist or not may have something to do with one’s race, gender, and class. Blacks in America may experience politics, the state, and capital differently than whites may. This article suggests as much, and so may add something to the discussion here on fascism. [https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/long-shadow-racial-fascism/](https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/long-shadow-racial-fascism/) ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/123 "2024-06-20T01:23:39Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > Blacks in America may experience politics, the state, and capital differently than whites may. Well, yes. That could be true of almost any demographic. But your link seems to be cherry-picking radicals of color. Consider: [Black Democrats are moderate](https://www.slowboring.com/p/black-democrats-are-moderate) > [@](#): > > Black voters are not a monolith, but even more importantly, they’re not all that progressive as a demographic. > > Black voters are more moderate across the board, and Black voters are the Democratic constituency most likely to identify as moderate. Someone could both self-identify as moderate and think the U.S. is trending towards fascism, so my link does not prove my point. I’m just introducing, albeit imperfectly, the idea that survey data tells us more than theorizing. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/124 "2024-06-20T01:30:26Z")
Re why I do not see fascism as being a big threat here, bad as Trump is, consider: [Fascism or Caesarism? How Napoleon, not Hitler, exemplifies an enduring threat to modern democracies](https://publicseminar.org/essays/fascism-or-caesarism/) > [@](#): > > Authors such as Jason Stanley (_How Fascism Works_) and Federico Finchelstein (_From Fascism to Populism in History_ and _A Brief History of Fascist Lies_) make a strong case for not keeping the political f-word off-limits in political discussion. > > Even so, warnings about fascism can still all too easily blind us to the nature of the political dangers we are now facing. Politicians and parties may “perform” fascism, as Stanley puts it, and include elements of it in their programs, without having either the desire or the ability to create anything like the fascist regimes of the past. But the word carries such intense associations, and provokes such intense emotions, that this key distinction gets blurred, leaving us without any real sense of what the “fascists” we are criticizing actually want, or have the ability, to achieve. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/125 "2024-06-22T03:15:41Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > _No one_ can ever make Amtrak run on time Is this a suggestion (via Mussolini) that there will never be fascism in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/126 "2024-06-22T22:25:25Z")
Being serious for a second, does anybody actually believe his goons could round up every “illegal”? Have any R explained the logistics of such an operation? It’s really pretty fanciful considering nobody has to carry I.D. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/127 "2024-06-22T23:18:17Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Has anyone defined “fascism” for the purposes of this thread? I think of Hitler and Mussolini, to be honest, and not “the USA in August 2019.” Fair question. To be sure, I don’t define fascism as, “Rule by men with thin mustaches and balding clowns.” Generally speaking, I would lump the Maga GOP with European far-right parties such as the National Front, National Rally in France, and the Fidesz Party in Hungary. Of the 3 only one is in power: under Victory Orban Hungary transitioned from a full democracy to a [partly free](https://freedomhouse.org/country/hungary/freedom-world/2024) power. For a US analogy, Jim Crow ensured that white conservative Democrats had a lock on political power in the south, after reconstruction. During reconstruction, African Americans were elected to various state and local positions. We could have had nice things. For the purposes of this thread, I’d define fascism as, “The leveraging of racial animus for the purposes of ending free and fair elections in 2028, thus ending our 240 year experiment with democracy on a national level.” Republican Presidents prior to 2016 would not be properly characterized as fascist or authoritarian for that matter (though Nixon was a cheat). > [@](#): > > _No one_ can ever make Amtrak run on time. Including Mussolini, who didn’t actually make the trains run on time. > **[Mussolini and On-Time Trains](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/loco-motive/)** > > Did Mussolini make the trains run on time? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/128 "2024-06-25T12:31:51Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Including Mussolini, who didn’t actually make the trains run on time. Bergen Evans, the Proto-Cecil, pointed this out in his book _The Natural History of Nonsense_ ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/129 "2024-06-25T12:38:02Z")
> [@CastletonSnob1](#): > > Why are people acting like a Biden win in November will defeat fascism, and not AT BEST, delay it? It could be because people often refuse to accept the inevitable. My theory is that, as the world situation worsens and worsens, it will be fertile ground for fascism to take over. An example is how the Versailles Treaty created the horrible conditions in Germany that provided the perfect opportunity for Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/130 "2024-06-25T13:31:37Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > My theory is that, as the world situation worsens and worsens, it will be fertile ground for fascism to take over. I’m not sure what you mean by “world situation.” Most of the world’s problems from my POV are already being caused by fascists (or near fascists), so that argument’s kind of tautological. OTOH, problems caused by worsening climate change will almost certainly bring about more authoritarianism as the social order breaks down. But I’m not sure it’s happening _yet_. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/131 "2024-06-25T14:40:33Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > But I’m not sure it’s happening _yet_. Stay tuned. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/132 "2024-06-25T14:46:35Z")
Could you give some solid examples. LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/133 "2024-06-25T14:48:36Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > LOL I read this as one of those super villain laughs. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/134 "2024-06-25T14:54:45Z")
I read it to mean “Something is gonna happen somewhere , sometime, and I will claim that this proves what I just said!” ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/135 "2024-06-25T15:15:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I read this as one of those super villain laughs. Well, I must confess that I absolutely loved the Disney series, “Kim Possible”, but my favorite character wasn’t Kim, it was Shego. 😈 [**Shego**](https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/54d47d41-7449-4a8b-b0db-efcb4b283f57.5a49060a6a16ba22971d413c61ae42d3.jpeg?odnHeight=768&odnWidth=768&odnBg=FFFFFF) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/136 "2024-06-25T21:13:17Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Bergen Evans, the Proto-Cecil, pointed this out in his book _The Natural History of Nonsense_ That is such a great book! I read it as a yute and was completely ruined for Republicanism ever after, despite having two GOP parents. (My mom got better in the 70s in the face of GOP opposition to women’s rights.) Fascism’s attractions in times of poverty/peril is well-documented. Resorting to a belief that _The Great Leader Will Save Us_ is, very unfortunately, a human-mind constant. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994/137 "2024-06-27T17:55:53Z")
Because delaying Fascism is a victory all its own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-acting-like-a-biden-win-in-november-will-defeat-fascism-and-not-at-best-delay-it/1002994.md?page=6)