# Why are people in New York City so unhappy (according to a reputable study)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 7, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947 "2014-11-07T02:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![arseNal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@arseNal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arseNal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/81 "2014-11-10T20:18:43Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Not really sure what the :rolleyes: is about (other than about the absurd self portrait). The whole point of living in NYC (as opposed to nearly anywhere else) is to have that feeling of being able to just walk out of your apartment and hang out in your local bar, coffee shop or antique book store or whatever. The portrait is a big part of it :D. But other than that, yes, having things close by is of course the point of a big city but “things” are not the same for everyone. It’s the way this article (and the NYT real estate page in general, apparently) makes it seem that all 8+ million people in NYC should be striving for that brownstone apartment on a tree-lined block that has a cute place for brunch around the corner. Well, that’s not everyone’s vision of NYC and I think that’s part of the answer to the question in this OP. For starters, I think a whole shitload of those people in ctown down by canal are pretty happy to be able to grab a bao and naicha in the mornings before work or dim sum on the weekends. Even the ones who don’t pay 2300/mo. ---
**Author:** ![arseNal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@arseNal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arseNal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/82 "2014-11-10T20:29:58Z")
oh, and for TL;DR: :rolleyes: because boo hoo, I’m 22 years old and my 2300/mo place doesn’t have a neighborhood joint for $25 eggs hollandaise and shitty mimosas and is too small to hang my 12 x 10 ft self portrait ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/83 "2014-11-10T21:21:39Z")
I can’t believe I am the first to [post this](http://www.theonion.com/articles/84-million-new-yorkers-suddenly-realize-new-york-c,18003/). ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/84 "2014-11-11T05:35:15Z")
What I cannot get is the idea of raising kids in an apartment building. To think that children are raised in some “203B” without a yard or place to play. Where they might go all their lives and never, ever set foot in either apartment next to them and barely know the residents names. And then if they walk outside the apartment building they are immediately engrossed in the city with homeless people sleeping on the sidewalk, druggies, crazy people pushing shopping carts around, cars everywhere… Now I’ve met some people who did grow up in New York and they just thought this was all normal. OTOH I pay $1200 a month mortgage on a 5 bedroom, 3 bath, house with 2 living rooms, office, basement, 2 car garage, and a large yard. The public schools are first rate. Shops, restaurants, parks, and theaters are all nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/85 "2014-11-11T05:53:20Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I cannot get is the idea of raising kids in an apartment building. To think that children are raised in some “203B” without a yard or place to play. Where they might go all their lives and never, ever set foot in either apartment next to them and barely know the residents names. > > And then if they walk outside the apartment building they are immediately engrossed in the city with homeless people sleeping on the sidewalk, druggies, crazy people pushing shopping carts around, cars everywhere… Now I’ve met some people who did grow up in New York and they just thought this was all normal. I know plenty of people who grew up in apartments, including both my parents. Sure you may or may not talk to the person in the next apartment, but you may or may not talk to the person next door. And you don’t have all the issues we see in various evil neighbor threads. There are homeless people in New York, there are tons of homeless people in Silicon Valley. New York has lots of parks. I grew up in a semi-attached house in Queens, with a yard, but my friends and I preferred the park by our elementary school, which had lots of handball courts and fields and playground equipment. Plus New York especially has all sorts of wonderful resources. We zipped off to Wall Street for our high school econ field trip. I research a high school history paper in the UN Library. And I got to see the dinosaurs. And Broadway all the time, not just touring companies. (Though I did see Oh Calcutta! in Lafayette Louisiana, which the linked article said is the happiest place in the country.) I lived in Lafayette. I lived in NY. If I had to choose, Hello Big Apple. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/86 "2014-11-11T06:13:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I cannot get is the idea of raising kids in an apartment building. To think that children are raised in some “203B” without a yard or place to play. Where they might go all their lives and never, ever set foot in either apartment next to them and barely know the residents names. > > And then if they walk outside the apartment building they are immediately engrossed in the city with homeless people sleeping on the sidewalk, druggies, crazy people pushing shopping carts around, cars everywhere… Now I’ve met some people who did grow up in New York and they just thought this was all normal. > > OTOH I pay $1200 a month mortgage on a 5 bedroom, 3 bath, house with 2 living rooms, office, basement, 2 car garage, and a large yard. The public schools are first rate. Shops, restaurants, parks, and theaters are all nearby. I don’t live in NYC, but I live in a city now and have lived in a couple of different ones over the years. I grew up in the suburbs and in my experience the suburbs are a much more isolating place. From my experience, people in cities try to get along because they have to. I know my neighbors now much better than in the burbs where there seems to be this undercurrent of fear of the outside world. I find this especially true for anyone or anything that is outside a pretty narrowly defined norm. Also, city kids just seem smarter than burb kids. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/87 "2014-11-11T06:30:46Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Also, city kids just seem smarter than burb kids. I’ll agree that kids raised in the city have alot more street sense. Meaning they know how to walk and look tough so nobody messes with them. They are better at spotting dangers. They are better at spotting hussles. They have seen and experienced alot more because they have been raised walking on the sidewalks and riding public transportation whereas for kids in my area riding a city bus and going downtown is almost a once a year field trip. They are just used to being driven everywhere and they are used to shopping at large department stores like Wal Mart or indoor shopping malls. Although that is starting to change because our area now has bus service and indoor malls are out in favor of open shopping areas that mimic big city streets. The one near us is called “Park Place”. I actually try to help my kids experience city life by taking them downtown Kansas City every so often. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/88 "2014-11-11T07:00:06Z")
I think one reason city kids seem sharper is that they learn that the world isn’t nearly as scary and dangerous as suburban kids think it is. I grew up thinking that the city was this big scary thing, when it’s really just a bunch of interconnected small towns. City kids learn risk taking and how to trust their own instincts. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/89 "2014-11-11T07:23:14Z")
And then, even after what I said in Post 5, shit like [this](http://nypost.com/2014/11/10/subway-brawl-breaks-out-after-man-slaps-woman/) makes me wonder what the hell I’m still doing here… ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/90 "2014-11-11T11:30:22Z")
It was just a fight on the subway, you take any group of 8 million people and some of them are punching each other. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/91 "2014-11-11T12:07:44Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I cannot get is the idea of raising kids in an apartment building. To think that children are raised in some “203B” without a yard or place to play. Where they might go all their lives and never, ever set foot in either apartment next to them and barely know the residents names. > > And then if they walk outside the apartment building they are immediately engrossed in the city with homeless people sleeping on the sidewalk, druggies, crazy people pushing shopping carts around, cars everywhere… Now I’ve met some people who did grow up in New York and they just thought this was all normal. > > OTOH I pay $1200 a month mortgage on a 5 bedroom, 3 bath, house with 2 living rooms, office, basement, 2 car garage, and a large yard. The public schools are first rate. Shops, restaurants, parks, and theaters are all nearby. We don’t live in NYC, but we do live in an apartment building. We also live a block away from two excellent parks, which we visit daily (as do our neighbors- we meet a lot of people there). We do know our neighbors and quite a bit of our little community in our building, and there are five kids of a similar age in our building. We are in a residential part of town, so if you step outside you just see a bunch of other apartment building punctuated by the occasional embassy. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/92 "2014-11-11T13:13:16Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I cannot get is the idea of raising kids in an apartment building. To think that children are raised in some “203B” without a yard or place to play. Where they might go all their lives and never, ever set foot in either apartment next to them and barely know the residents names. NYC does have parks, you know. And handball courts and basketball courts. Sure, there are kids stuck in apartments all day, but there are also plenty of surburban kids who can’t be arsed to leave their homes too. And the not-visiting-the-apartments-next-door assumption is crazy. NYers make friends too, you know. Especially when kids are involved. In my northern NJ highrise, it seemed like all the families with kids were coming out of each other’s units all the time, and this makes perfect sense when you consider that they were likely sharing child-care responsibilities. I’d say that apartment life promotes familiarity, since you’re sharing walls and common areas (like the laundry room). > [@](#): > > And then if they walk outside the apartment building they are immediately engrossed in the city with homeless people sleeping on the sidewalk, druggies, crazy people pushing shopping carts around, cars everywhere… Now I’ve met some people who did grow up in New York and they just thought this was all normal. It is normal in any major city. Suburbanites may be able to pretend that poverty isn’t “normal”, but this is a self-delusion. At least when you confront it on a daily basis, you learn something about human behavior and if you are so inclined, become more compassionate in the process. All the easily frightened people I know come from the suburbs. > [@](#): > > OTOH I pay $1200 a month mortgage on a 5 bedroom, 3 bath, house with 2 living rooms, office, basement, 2 car garage, and a large yard. The public schools are first rate. Shops, restaurants, parks, and theaters are all nearby. There are trade-offs with anything, though. You have a house that you have to shell out $$ and time to maintain, lest your property values slip and the angry mob of neighbors knocks at your door. You have to drive everywhere. Chances are the shops and restaurants you have access to are pretty cookie-cutter. As is the housing and most likely the people. You don’t immediately recognize these costs because either they don’t bother you or you’ve adjusted to them. But not everyone wants these things. They want the things that come with life in the big city. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/93 "2014-11-11T13:15:17Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > OTOH I pay $1200 a month mortgage on a 5 bedroom, 3 bath, house with 2 living rooms, office, basement, 2 car garage, and a large yard. The public schools are first rate. Shops, restaurants, parks, and theaters are all nearby. And on my other hand, I can’t imagine why I would want a house that large with only four people living in it. And don’t bother telling me the extra bedrooms are for guests- I don’t really want overnight guests. Similarly, I have a small fenced yard which was fine for my children when they were young enough to be restricted to the yard. In fact, it was better than the large, unfenced (and not allowed to be fenced) yards that my suburban friends had, because the friends’ children could not play in the yard without an adult, while mine could. Those kids probably didn’t spend much more time playing outside than my apartment dwelling friends’ kids spent at the park - and to be honest, if I’m going to be outside with my kids, I’d rather take them to the nearby park where there are other kids and parents and better playground equipment than sit with them in my own yard. It seems as though you think apartment dwellers _cannot_ know their neighbors, while house dwellers always do. That’s not true, but even if it was, I don’t necessarily want to know all my neighbors to the extent that I’ve been in their homes. Just because someone lives in either the apartment or house next door doesn’t mean we have to be best friends or even friends at all. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/94 "2014-11-11T15:44:09Z")
Sounds like you all got lucky with a great apartment situation. To be honest I know of some apartment complexes around here that also cater to families and they sound pretty good. I’m thinking of apartments where you have crazy people wanting to play music at all hours or have late night orgies. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/95 "2014-11-11T16:02:30Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Sounds like you all got lucky with a great apartment situation. To be honest I know of some apartment complexes around here that also cater to families and they sound pretty good. > > I’m thinking of apartments where you have crazy people wanting to play music at all hours or have late night orgies. I’ve lived in both good and bad apartments. Apartment life certainly has its disadvantages, which is why I’m not really interested in doing it again unless I have to. But like I said upthread, every living situation has its trade-offs. I can’t imagine plopping down thousands of dollars as a down payment on a house, knowing that any minute I might get the neighbor from hell–one who drives down my property value and gives me a constant headache. Is this a realistic fear? Sure. Does it happen frequently enough so that it never makes sense to buy a house? Of course not. The more money you have, the less likely you’re going to have a bad apartment experience. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/96 "2014-11-11T16:13:16Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > Because they die out of water. That might explain things, except NYCers leave for the suburbs, stay there, survive, and breed. The more likely explanation for their misery is paying $2000 a month to rent a broom closet, if you can still find one at that price. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/97 "2014-11-11T16:25:50Z")
I grew up in a house in the suburbs with a big yard, and it’s true, sometimes I wonder if I should be giving my daughter that experience. However, she’s got it pretty good anyway. We live in an apartment, but it is close to an enormous park that has both playground areas as well as isolated wooded areas so she can explore and poke around without any structure. For someone who doesn’t know how to read, she does a decent job of knowing her way around a subway and bus map, she could probably take the bus to the zoo on her own. She enjoys going to museums, and then making art at home based on things that she saw at exhibits. She has friends that speak a variety of different languages in their homes; and visits them and nonchalantly eats foods that I hadn’t even heard of until I went to college. She knows all the people who work in the businesses on the blocks around our house – the bakery, the deli, the fish market, the Mexican place, the nail salon, the bank, the pizzeria, the frozen yogurt place, the pet store. We also take advantage of friends and family who live in more suburban or rural areas, so she has spent days with her cousins in the backyard pool, she has been to a farm. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/98 "2014-11-11T16:34:24Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Sounds like you all got lucky with a great apartment situation. To be honest I know of some apartment complexes around here that also cater to families and they sound pretty good. > > I’m thinking of apartments where you have crazy people wanting to play music at all hours or have late night orgies. This reminded me of something I meant to say earlier- there really isn’t _a_ NYC culture. There are some commonalities like the mass transit system but there are _many_ NYC cultures. I’m sure there are apartment buildings full of people who have noisy late night parties- but families who want quiet after 9 pm wouldn’t chose to live in them. Nor would the people who want late night parties tend to choose the buildings that are full of families and seniors. People who want to walk outside their house and find a coffee shop wouldn’t live in Flushing and people who want to walk outside and find a dim sum restaurant wouldn’t live in my neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/99 "2014-11-11T17:07:58Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’m thinking of apartments where you have crazy people wanting to play music at all hours or have late night orgies. psst - that’s called a dorm. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2014, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947/100 "2014-11-12T11:12:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The actual reason is that to actually live in a nice part of NYC, you need to make enough money to afford a $3000 a month 1 BR apartment, not to mention all your other living expenses. And that typically means a six figure job at an investment bank, law firm, consulting firm, Big-4 accounting firm, tech company or other high-pressure, highly competitive field with long hours and high turnover. Failing to earn that much will typically mean living further out in a worse neighborhood in an outer borough with a long commute. As Manhattan (and it’s central business district cores in Midtown and Wall Street) is on an island, anyone not living on the island automatically incurs a huge commute time increase by having to cross one of the rivers. I’ve read a few articles about unhappiness in big urban areas, and I suspect it’s largely due to the inhabitant’s disposable income more than anything else. As I said [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16725217&postcount=12), I live better in flyover country than a multi-millionaire in NYC. (Quoting myself) \*For me personally, my corporate peers in the “blue” NE can make almost 200% of my salary, but I’m the one who can have a private plane, thousands of acres of private hunting land and a small cabin cruiser on the lake outside my window. This lifestyle is literally impossible for them. \* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-in-new-york-city-so-unhappy-according-to-a-reputable-study/703947.md?page=6)