# Why are people not up in arms over Guantanamo Bay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151 "2011-04-29T13:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/81 "2011-05-01T14:29:35Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Without cause? I thought that the detainees that were innocent or possibly so were all already released, and the ones that remain we have solid evidence on of their shenanigans. No; even the government doesn’t think it has evidence for 150 of them. And I doubt that the government has “solid” evidence for many of them; torture taints all evidence remotely associated with it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/82 "2011-05-01T14:50:31Z")
FoieGras, your posts are showing signs of confusion. You say the detainees are essentially POW’s but you also say there is evidence of their guilt. POW’s are not guilty or innocent - they’re soldiers who are being held captive during a war. Guilt and innocence are criminal matters. So are the detainees captured soldiers or suspected criminals? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/83 "2011-05-01T15:34:53Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > And the protests in the streets over Guantanamo Bay (since Obama took office) is…where? > Answer this question. > Where in “the streets” are the protests over Guantanamo Bay? > > Answer the question!!! [Protests Against Guantamamo Torture Camp : Indybay](http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/01/12/18471950.php) I gave you one in post 71 and here is another. But show me newspaper and TV coverage. That is the difference. News is what our TV stations say it is. If they do not cover it, it did not happen. There are lots people offended by Gitmo. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/84 "2011-05-01T15:38:56Z")
There is 172 current detainees. Of those, 124ish are scheduled for prosecution (35ish) or release (89ish) (or are “released” and waiting for a home to go to). Around 48ish will not be prosecuted nor released. They are being indefinitely detained as combatants; this is allowed under the AUMF and Obama has _chosen_ to use this lawful detention power. He doesn’t have to. He could try them, or for the ones that did not commit crimes, release them. He does not do this because he believes they have strong ties to Al-Qaeda/Taliban and/or will very likely engage in extremist activity if released. Obama came to these conclusions, Obama decided whether the evidence leading to these conclusions was credible, and Obama decided he would rather detain them and accept the baggage that comes with making that decision. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/85 "2011-05-01T16:40:43Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Protests Against Guantamamo Torture Camp : Indybay](http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/01/12/18471950.php) I gave you one in post 71 and here is another. But show me newspaper and TV coverage. That is the difference. News is what our TV stations say it is. If they do not cover it, it did not happen. There are lots people offended by Gitmo. Your cite shows 10 people protesting. WOW! 10 people! And those “people” are high school students. Who gives a rip what they think? Talk to them again in 20 years. The reason there is no coverage in the news is because 99% of the news sources are on the left. Holding Obamas feet to the fire would not help their agenda. Bitching about Gitmo when Bush was POTUS was part of their agenda: getting a liberal in the White House. For conservative news sources, like FOX, it’s a double edged sword. While they’d like to hammer Obama on his hypocrisy, they also want Gitmo to stay open. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/86 "2011-05-01T17:34:18Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The reason there is no coverage in the news is because 99% of the news sources are on the left. Holding Obamas feet to the fire would not help their agenda. Bitching about Gitmo when Bush was POTUS was part of their agenda: getting a liberal in the White House. :rolleyes: Wrong on all counts. The vast majority of the news media is right wing; what else do you expect a bunch of giant corporations to be? The “liberal news media” has never been anything but a right wing propaganda line, with no connection to reality. They didn’t especially “bitch about” Bush either, they went easy on him and supported his agenda; his evil and incompetence were simply too great for them to paper over without looking like idiots given modern unofficial news sources and access to foreign media like the BBC. And Obama isn’t remotely liberal. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/87 "2011-05-01T17:36:17Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Your cite shows 10 people protesting. WOW! 10 people! > > And those “people” are high school students. Who gives a rip what they think? Talk to them again in 20 years. > > The reason there is no coverage in the news is because 99% of the news sources are on the left. Holding Obamas feet to the fire would not help their agenda. Bitching about Gitmo when Bush was POTUS was part of their agenda: getting a liberal in the White House. > > For conservative news sources, like FOX, it’s a double edged sword. While they’d like to hammer Obama on his hypocrisy, they also want Gitmo to stay open. There is no left wing media on your TV. Zero. It is a plaintive wail of the right with no basis in fact. All Tv and the news is owned by major corporations who do not allow protests to get on TV. There are lots of Gitmo demonstrations around the world. https://www.youtube.com/embed/VQUgjdlaGRk?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/88 "2011-05-01T20:02:42Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > You are not the only one. Ditto, not the only one by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/89 "2011-05-01T20:05:32Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > In my case, I’ve pretty much lost hope. If Obama isn’t going to close it, what can I do? Vote for the Republican who will likely campaign on building a waterboarding assembly line there? Basically this. I voted for the “guys who would supposedly stop that sort of thing and respect the Bill Of Rights and Other Stuff”. But once they get in, the promises don’t mean a thing. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/90 "2011-05-01T22:20:14Z")
I too call bullshit. How many posters here wanted Bush sent to the Hague on war crimes charges for Guantanamo? Anyone want Obama sent there? Why not? Even though he may have “inherited” the problem, he is the CoC. He could order them released or have military tribunals begun tomorrow. Is it possible that the POTUS (Bush or Obama) has more information than posters on the SDMB? Hell, two and a half years ago when gas got to $4/gallon it was because Bush was in bed with the oil companies. Is it possible that those people were wrong then? I haven’t heard anyone admit that maybe Bush did some unpopular things out of necessity, and that it was easy for candidate Obama to make grand proclamations, now President Obama has to live in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/91 "2011-05-01T23:29:15Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I too call bullshit. How many posters here wanted Bush sent to the Hague on war crimes charges for Guantanamo? Anyone want Obama sent there? Why not? Even though he may have “inherited” the problem, he is the CoC. He could order them released or have military tribunals begun tomorrow. Is it possible that the POTUS (Bush or Obama) has more information than posters on the SDMB? > > Hell, two and a half years ago when gas got to $4/gallon it was because Bush was in bed with the oil companies. Is it possible that those people were wrong then? I haven’t heard anyone admit that maybe Bush did some unpopular things out of necessity, and that it was easy for candidate Obama to make grand proclamations, now President Obama has to live in the real world. Obama on his worst day hasn’t done a tenth of what Bush did. Look at all the problems Obama is having - Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, Afghanistan, the financial crisis, high oil prices, the deficit, Korean and Iranian nuclear weapons programs - and what do they all have in common? They all started on George Bush’s watch. Here’s the comparison: Obama is an average President. Bush was a terrible President. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/92 "2011-05-02T00:21:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Obama on his worst day hasn’t done a tenth of what Bush did. Look at all the problems Obama is having - Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, Afghanistan, the financial crisis, high oil prices, the deficit, Korean and Iranian nuclear weapons programs - and what do they all have in common? They all started on George Bush’s watch. > > Here’s the comparison: Obama is an average President. Bush was a terrible President. All started on GWB’s watch? Korean and Iranian nuclear programmes have been in the works for a long time. The deficit has been around since before Reagan, oil prices have little to nothing to do with the President and the financial crises was long in the making before GWB took office. If you really want to blame anyone, blame them all. Presidents and congressmen and women. Its really unfair to single out a President for many of these issues as they are quite complicated and multi-faceted. As far as Afghanistan and Guantanamo, 9/11 happened during Bush’s tenure, but I don’t see anyone blaming him for that. Heck, you could argue that the evisceration of the HUMINT portion of intelligence agencies was gutted by Carter during his admin and we suffered for it later which helped to precipitate the event under our radar. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/93 "2011-05-02T03:35:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Obama on his worst day hasn’t done a tenth of what Bush did. Look at all the problems Obama is having - Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, Afghanistan, the financial crisis, high oil prices, the deficit, Korean and Iranian nuclear weapons programs - and what do they all have in common? They all started on George Bush’s watch. > > Here’s the comparison: Obama is an average President. Bush was a terrible President. A gallon of gas was under $1.80 when Bush left office. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/94 "2011-05-02T04:24:39Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > All started on GWB’s watch? Korean and Iranian nuclear programmes have been in the works for a long time. The deficit has been around since before Reagan, oil prices have little to nothing to do with the President and the financial crises was long in the making before GWB took office. > > If you really want to blame anyone, blame them all. Presidents and congressmen and women. Its really unfair to single out a President for many of these issues as they are quite complicated and multi-faceted. > > As far as Afghanistan and Guantanamo, 9/11 happened during Bush’s tenure, but I don’t see anyone blaming him for that. Heck, you could argue that the evisceration of the HUMINT portion of intelligence agencies was gutted by Carter during his admin and we suffered for it later which helped to precipitate the event under our radar. I feel it’s a fair assessment. I only chose items which I feel Bush had a negative effect on. I didn’t blame him for the 9/11 attacks - just for the way he bungled the response. The deficit? It was its way down when he took office and he turned it around and sent it back up to record levels. He pushed for the de-regulation that led to the financial crisis. Korea and Iran both accelerated their nuclear programs in response to Bush’s foreign policies. And oil prices rose steadily throughout Bush’s eight years in office - except during a few special occasions. It’s true, as pkbites points out, that gas was under $1.80 when Bush left office. But it’s also true that gas prices during the summer of 2008 were $4.10 a gallon - and then suddenly started plunging in the six weeks before Election Day (the largest drop in the eight years of Bush’s administration). As for the Jimmy Carter and the CIA, do I have to point out that Carter left office in 1981? I’m pretty sure his impact on CIA operations in 2001 was minimal. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/95 "2011-05-02T12:21:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Obama on his worst day hasn’t done a tenth of what Bush did. Look at all the problems Obama is having - Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, Afghanistan, the financial crisis, high oil prices, the deficit, Korean and Iranian nuclear weapons programs - and what do they all have in common? They all started on George Bush’s watch. How come PATRIOT isn’t on that list, when it’s easily in the top 3 rotten things the Bush government did to America ? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/96 "2011-05-02T19:46:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > How come PATRIOT isn’t on that list, when it’s easily in the top 3 rotten things the Bush government did to America ? Because Obama [supports](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/15/politics/main5314011.shtml) that too. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/97 "2011-05-03T18:58:03Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > There is no left wing media on your TV. Zero. It is a plaintive wail of the right with no basis in fact. All Tv and the news is owned by major corporations who do not allow protests to get on TV. There are lots of Gitmo demonstrations around the world. > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQUgjdlaGRk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQUgjdlaGRk) You must not get LinkTV. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151/98 "2011-05-03T19:39:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > . And Obama isn’t remotely liberal. You forgot the smiley face. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-not-up-in-arms-over-guantanamo-bay/580151.md?page=4)