# Why are people still so upset about Marshall Fields? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 21, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096 "2009-12-21T18:30:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/21 "2010-01-12T23:05:10Z")
[sub]omg, I am so embarrassed. It’s THEY’RE, not their, in my post…[/sub] :eek: That fixed, I also have to decry the loss of quality stationery–I see no Crane’s in Macy’s. I also saw nothing in the way of Christmas windows. I pass by that way occasionally when I take the 156 instead of the 151 to get to my train. I saw some half-ass presentation about letters to Santa or Xmas greetings or some such. Put it this way: the windows did not make me want to take a later train so that I could enjoy some nostalgia and some holiday cheer. I miss The Bowl and Basket, the Walnut Room, the whole “give the lady what she wants” attitude. The OP does know that Marshall Field essentially invented the department store, correct? I have a bumper sticker from Jim McKay. It reads: Fields is Chicago; Boycott Macy’s with the url in the sticker. It’s not on my car, but I still don’t shop at Macy’s and I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/22 "2010-01-14T22:57:12Z")
> [@SelmaPatty](#): > > People are just stupid. Amen to that. I remember someone writing into the Trib blathering on about Macy’s symbol being the red star and that showed they were being run by communists. Communists? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/23 "2010-01-14T23:58:02Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I also have to decry the loss of quality stationery–I see no Crane’s in Macy’s. I also saw nothing in the way of Christmas windows. I pass by that way occasionally when I take the 156 instead of the 151 to get to my train. I saw some half-ass presentation about letters to Santa or Xmas greetings or some such. Put it this way: the windows did not make me want to take a later train so that I could enjoy some nostalgia and some holiday cheer. > > I miss The Bowl and Basket, the Walnut Room, the whole “give the lady what she wants” attitude. I think the culture has changed. The idea of selling to a stable, urban middle class - a group that is stylish but not fashion obsessed, and may stay loyal for decades - is over. This, I imagine, was Field’s customer. The closest equivalent these days in a chain is Lord & Taylor, and their shoppers are getting older and less stylish every year - a trend the merch doesn’t yet reflect. The urban middle class today - in New York, Chicago, wherever - is mostly made up of the _newly_ middle class. They’re younger, busier, more multicultural. They shop for trends, brands, and deals. They don’t use niceties like stationery. And they don’t ask for the same level of quality and service, because they\* never knew it.\* This is Macy\*s customer. The industry, I believe, is going their way - whether it’s the right decision or not. ---
**Author:** ![emellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@emellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emellis)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/24 "2010-05-28T17:57:39Z")
Business is emotional. What makes a business successful or not depends on how it caters to the wants and needs of the people, and this is a decidedly unrational process. The minute a business-owner or executive loses site of this and focuses on buying bags in bulk he/she is probably screwed. What good are bags that you bought in bulk if they are sitting on a pallet in the back covered with shrink-wrap because nobody is buying your mercahdise. ---
**Author:** ![Roman\_Gertz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/958977/32.png) [@Roman\_Gertz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roman_Gertz)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/25 "2010-06-12T13:10:50Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I disagree. Tradition is something you do yourself. Not something you try to coerce other people to do with their own lawfully acquired property for your benefit. I must disagree with you on that thought.. Tradition is something that people have been doing for quite some time already, and people would continue to do.. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/26 "2010-06-13T01:05:11Z")
^Have we been invaded by some sort of 'bots? Both here and in the Rand McNally thread, we have these comments that sound automated, like some sort of Turing Test, repeating and reinterpreting phrases from the previous post. Marshall Field “riot?” “The people who lost their loved once?” ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/27 "2010-06-13T01:17:07Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > ^Have we been invaded by some sort of 'bots? Both here and in the Rand McNally thread, we have these comments that sound automated, like some sort of Turing Test, repeating and reinterpreting phrases from the previous post. Marshall Field “riot?” “The people who lost their loved once?” Probably. I’ve been following this and the other. Not totally clear cut, but expect action sooner rather than later. **samclem** ---
**Author:** ![Jim2929](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ea5d25/32.png) [@Jim2929](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim2929)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/28 "2010-06-13T04:52:20Z")
When they changed the name to Macys. I cut my Fields credit card in half. I’ll never shop that store again. I make two or three trips back to my old home Chicago a year, my wife’s first stop was always Fields. never again. the place is just plan shit. ---
**Author:** ![ScatteredFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@ScatteredFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScatteredFrog)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/29 "2010-06-14T17:06:41Z")
Speaking of bots that are repeating from prior posts, I really feel like a broken record. IT IS NOT JUST A NAME. Yes, the name is PART of the issue (I think it’s kind of insulting to remove the name of someone who practically built this city), but it’s much more than that. The merchandise changed, the prices increased, and the customer service went down the crapper. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/30 "2010-06-15T01:37:20Z")
> [@ScatteredFrog](#): > > Speaking of bots that are repeating from prior posts, I really feel like a broken record. > > IT IS NOT JUST A NAME. Yes, the name is PART of the issue (I think it’s kind of insulting to remove the name of someone who practically built this city), but it’s much more than that. The merchandise changed, the prices increased, and the customer service went down the crapper. I truly apologise for our slowness in removing these cretins. We tend to err on the side of caution. Hopefully, they don’t breed. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/31 "2010-06-16T13:47:26Z")
> [@ScatteredFrog](#): > > IT IS NOT JUST A NAME. Yes, the name is PART of the issue (I think it’s kind of insulting to remove the name of someone who practically built this city), but it’s much more than that. The merchandise changed, the prices increased, and the customer service went down the crapper. We will never know for sure, but I tend to believe it really _is_ about the name. IMO Field’s had been going downhill for years anyway. If everything else were exactly as it is today, _except_ that it still says “Marshall Field’s” on the sign, I have serious doubts that people would be up in arms over the merchandise and service like they’ve been up in arms over the name. Right or wrong, I do think it’s more about that than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/32 "2010-06-17T00:41:03Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > The OP does know that Marshall Field essentially invented the department store, correct? I have no horse in this race, but I did recently read Robert Hendrickson’s _The Grand Emporiums: The Illustrated History of America’s Great Department Stores_. (Don’t ask.) For whatever definition of “essentially invented the department store,” this is contradicted by him. Macy’s started a generation before Field’s and famous names like Gimbels in New York, Lazarus in Columbus, and Wanamaker’s in Philadelphia were all up and running before Fields. Hendrickson also says that some people consider Zions in Salt Lake City the first true department store. As far as I’m concerned all the traditions of department stores can go hang, especially the one that decides whether and where to put the apostrophe. (For the record, I’m following Hendrickson’s usages.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/33 "2010-06-17T02:38:49Z")
Surely Hendrickson wrote _ZCMI_ rather than _Zions_. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/34 "2010-06-17T02:58:32Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Surely Hendrickson wrote _ZCMI_ rather than _Zions_. Actually he used both. Zions was easier than spelling the whole thing out. [ZCMI](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zions_Cooperative_Mercantile_Institution). > [@](#): > > Zions Cooperative Mercantile Institution was founded in 1868, by Brigham Young and was one of the earliest department stores in the United States. For many years, it used the slogan, “America’s First Department Store”. It is now also part of the Macy’s empire. As are Lazarus and Wanamaker’s. [Gimbel’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbel%27s) had a more ironic ending. > [@](#): > > The cornerstone of the chain, the downtown Milwaukee store where Adam Gimbel had first found success (and alleged to be the most profitable Gimbel store), was handed to former BATUS sister division Marshall Field’s, as well as some other Milwaukee Gimbels branch stores. After a few uncomfortable years trying to be a mass-market retailer, Fields gave up in 1997, closing the Milwaukee store and selling off the remaining Gimbels branches it held, except for the Hilldale store in Madison, Wisconsin, which became Macy’s in September 2006. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/35 "2010-06-17T03:14:57Z")
I’ve not delved into Hendrickson’s cites on this. I’m just saying that Robert Hendrickson is one piss-poor person to read about history. His etymological works are considered crap. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/36 "2010-06-17T17:47:14Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > I’ve not delved into Hendrickson’s cites on this. > > I’m just saying that Robert Hendrickson is one piss-poor person to read about history. His etymological works are considered crap. The book is certainly popular history. But I’m not sure what the rest of your point is. The chronology of when different department stores opened is obviously correct. ZCMI does advertise itself as the first department store. I can look at his Macy’s history and trace it directly to books on Macy’s that I’ve read. What am I not supposed to trust? ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/37 "2010-06-20T12:06:58Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Amen to that. I remember someone writing into the Trib blathering on about Macy’s symbol being the red star and that showed they were being run by communists. Communists? Really? As a child of the cold war, the red star of Macy’s does rub me the wrong way, as does the one on Red Star yeast. Do I believe either company has anything to do with communism? Not to my knowledge. But the choice of symbols is grating. Oddly, Arm & Hammer baking soda does have a connection to communism, and yet that doesn’t bother me. Nor do American communists in general. Macy’s could have kept up the Christmas window tradition, it was great publicity, and got news coverage every year. The displays were something special, and really did make me want to at least take a look inside. That they so bungled the handling of the dropping of the Christmas displays made me decide they were a business too stupid to get my dollar. It felt like they were deliberately pissing on the holiday and they came off as mean spirited as Scrooge. ---
**Author:** ![ChicagoTom25](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@ChicagoTom25](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChicagoTom25)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/38 "2011-02-23T01:34:24Z")
I know that I am resurrecting an old thread but has anyone shopped at Macy’s? I know that I have avoided it if I can. My wife likes to go there but I won’t go in. A lot of people register for a wedding registry there so that is probably the only time I’ve ever bought anything from there. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/39 "2011-02-23T05:51:23Z")
I shopped there for years when it was Fields. And I’ve shopped there after the conversion. Honestly, except for the color of the shopping bags, I can’t tell the difference. Haters are being silly. ---
**Author:** ![ChicagoTom25](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@ChicagoTom25](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChicagoTom25)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096/40 "2011-03-03T02:01:29Z")
Yea, that was my opinion when I finally ended up going in there. But I tell you what, if my wife doesn’t stop shopping there we are going to end up having to go to a [debt relief program](http://www.ccrnow.com). It seems like she goes there every other day. I don’t mind her going shopping but not as often as she goes! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-still-so-upset-about-marshall-fields/522096.md?page=3)