# Why are people uncomfortable attacking muslim fundies like they would christian fundies? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 14, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665 "2012-09-14T06:00:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/41 "2012-09-15T03:38:31Z")
> [@A\_Nested\_Thorn](#): > > In other words, if you’re an outspoken atheist of the Dawkins sort I’m not. > [@](#): > > , it seems like the best reasons to avoid slurring Islam would be 1) I don’t want to be killed to death 2) why bother anyway (or something similar). Saying anything else before those two just seems like an attempt to justify a double-standard. I don’t understand what that means. > [@](#): > > I mean, wouldn’t it make sense to lay the mental attack on them now, while their numbers are low in the US, to let them know that some of us are hostile toward them in general as a way of discouraging Muslim immigration? Wouldn’t you like to make sure they don’t ever make up a significant enough percentage of our population to affect policy, because make no mistake, they would absolutely try if they had the numbers; it’s what religions do. No, it’s what \*fundamentalists \*do. The majority of people already in the US are religious, and aren’t trying to shove it down my throat or control my behavior. I have no desire and see no reason, nor do I think it particularly effective, to try and control what people believe. I’d simply like to control what they do - by making sure they’re not controlling what I do. Do I think that if there were a sizable Muslim population in the US that they’d try to bring about Sharia law? I’m not sure. I do know some Muslims, but they’re all immigrants who came here because they didn’t like the fundamentalists in their homelands. I think there’s a self selecting influence to immigration in the direction I favor. Could Sharia law be more of a risk in the future? Possibly. It’s worth watching for, and guarding our laws and legislatures against \*all \*forms of religion being made public policy. > [@](#): > > \*\*The poster does not advocate Satanism. I do. Great philosophy, Satanism is. Very, very close to the militant atheists you speak of. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/42 "2012-09-15T03:56:24Z")
If one is going to ask why something happens, one must first establish that it does, in fact, happen. In my experience, people (at least in the US) are a heck of a lot more comfortable attacking Muslim fundamentalists than they are attacking Christian fundamentalists. Just for starters, how many popular movies or TV shows can you name where Christian fundamentalists, or caricatures thereof, are the villains? Because with Muslims, it’s a heck of a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/43 "2012-09-15T05:06:36Z")
I think The Onion sums it up: [No One Murdered Because of This Image](http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/). (Warning: offensive. On the other hand, no one murdered because of it.) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/44 "2012-09-15T05:13:45Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > (Warning: offensive. On the other hand, no one murdered because of it.) Yet… ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/45 "2012-09-15T05:17:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If one is going to ask why something happens, one must first establish that it does, in fact, happen. In my experience, people (at least in the US) are a heck of a lot more comfortable attacking Muslim fundamentalists than they are attacking Christian fundamentalists. Just for starters, how many popular movies or TV shows can you name where Christian fundamentalists, or caricatures thereof, are the villains? Because with Muslims, it’s a heck of a lot of them. I don’t think anyone is denying that there are plenty of Christian fundamentalist people who are anti-Muslim in the US. The way I took the OP is, _of the subset of people who DO attack Christian fundamentalists_, why are so many of them reticent to criticize Muslim extremists with the same ferocity when Muslim extremists are much more powerful on a world political level? I’ve noticed the same thing, personally. I’ve seen instances where these people will look at a news story involving a clash between Christian fundies vs. Muslim extremists and criticize the Christians while being oblivious to the Muslim extremists. I think that’s pretty ridiculous. Fundamentalists/extremists of any type are dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/46 "2012-09-15T05:20:42Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > The way I took the OP is, _of the subset of people who DO attack Christian fundamentalists_, why are so many of them reticent to criticize Muslim extremists with the same ferocity when Muslim extremists are much more powerful on a world political level? Because they aren’t. Christian fundamentalists have long had a great deal of influence over America, which is far more powerful and unified than the entire Muslim world. And America isn’t the only place they have power. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/47 "2012-09-15T05:24:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The real answers are primarily: > > 1. Fear of violence, as Mangetout notes. People don’t like to acknowledge to themselves that they’re intimidated by others, so they make up other rationalizations, but it’s there. > > 2. Muslims in general are identified as Opressed People, which garners them a lot of sympathy and empathy in Left Wing circles, which happen to be the circles which are most prone to attacking fundamentalists. > > In addition to the above, while Christian Fundamentalists have more power in the US, Muslim Fundamentalists have significantly more power on a world-wide level, by several orders of magnitude. This means that many governments and other global entities have to tiptoe very carefully in dealing with them, and this translates further down the line. I agree with all of the above. I know enough Muslims to know that Muslims aren’t ALL extremists, but Christian fundamentalists don’t have nearly the amount of effect on world politics that the governments of the Middle East do. I also wonder if part of this may just be Americans being their usual self-centered selves: Muslim fanaticism only affects those brown people in Iran and Saudi Arabia, so why should we in America care? We’d rather just scream and yell about Fred Phelps (who, don’t get me wrong, is a lunatic asshole, but of no true significance in world politics) because he happens to be in our backyard, than worry about the fact that women thousands of miles away are being killed by their governments over spurious charges of adultery and such. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/48 "2012-09-15T05:30:18Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > As others have said, for me Christian fundamentalists want to limit my daughters’ reproductive rights and screw around with science education. I know of no Muslims trying to do that, and it is not for lack of exposure - I live within walking distance of the biggest center of Afghan refugees in the US. (Not refugees any more.) I’m sure there a few fundamentalists there, none have ever tried to impose their beliefs on me. No Muslims, or just no Muslims in your neighborhood? I think your friends who fled Afghanistan probably could tell you a lot about Muslim extremism. Just because it isn’t a problem in your neighborhood doesn’t mean it’s not a huge problem globally. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/49 "2012-09-15T05:36:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yet… Just a cheap drive-by, or do you honestly believe The Onion cartoonist has reason to fear for his or her life? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/50 "2012-09-15T05:41:59Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Just a cheap drive-by, or do you honestly believe The Onion cartoonist has reason to fear for his or her life? Neither. More a comment on how they can’t know if someone will take that kind of offense to it, especially when they draw attention to it like that. And also labeling _any_ picture “No One Murdered Because of This Image” _does_ have a certain aura of tempting fate about it. And I do have trouble resisting replying to a straight line. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/51 "2012-09-15T06:21:14Z")
Can’t know, huh? Put it this way: if Mohammed had been included in that cartoon, and the cartoonist did end up murdered with that particular cartoon being the clear instigating factor, do you think it’s equally likely the murderer would be Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or Muslim? Just a roll of the dice? ---
**Author:** ![bahimes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@bahimes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bahimes)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/52 "2012-09-15T08:01:52Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Fundamentalist Christians have fucked up my society way more than fundamentalism Muslims have. Take your shoes off in airport security. Take no liquids more than 3 ounces. go through the pat down and scan. ---
**Author:** ![bahimes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@bahimes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bahimes)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/53 "2012-09-15T08:18:40Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > I agree with all of the above. > I know enough Muslims to know that Muslims aren’t ALL extremists, > I also wonder if part of this may just be Americans being their usual self-centered selves: Muslim fanaticism only affects those brown people in Iran and Saudi Arabia, so why should we in America care? … Having lived and worked for many years with many muslims in Iraq, Jordan and Turkey, not to mention the Magreb, I ALMOST agree. However, outside the US, most muslims are educated to a very minimal level by the religious authorities, not the government. The ones who are educated in the western sense (many of al qaeda’s leader are engineers for dog’s sake!) are normally not “fundamentalist”. The hoi polloi are easily incited to do whatever is suggested in the Friday gatherings in the mosque. Most Iraq and Saudis (arabs in general) are only as brown as they let the sun make them. ---
**Author:** ![ecoaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@ecoaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ecoaster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/54 "2012-09-15T08:22:45Z")
I essentially agree with what Fareed Zakaria has to say[here](http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/14/qa-what-the-mideast-protests-reveal/?hpt=hp_c1). Intelligent, well-versed guy. Fundamentalism of any stripe rubs me the wrong way. The willingness of men to form mobs overseas is troubling, but in my mind this is just as much about political instability and general social disenfranchisement as it is about this completely obsolete, ridiculous film. Ironically, I’d be willing to bet 90% of Muslims in these public protests would be happy to have a coffee and politely chat with you or me about international affairs. They are certainly not all terrorist wanabees. Denouncing “America” because of this film seems preposterous and ignorant to me, but given our track record of involvement in the ME and with Israel, I can understand if we are not exactly perceived as beloved nation of tolerant pacifists. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/55 "2012-09-15T12:03:21Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > We’d rather just scream and yell about Fred Phelps (who, don’t get me wrong, is a lunatic asshole, but of no true significance in world politics) because he happens to be in our backyard, than worry about the fact that women thousands of miles away are being killed by their governments over spurious charges of adultery and such. Yes, exactly. I’d rather scream and yell about people trying to kill myself and my daughter by outlawing our right to a legal and safe abortion should we need it. Yep, guilty as charged. I love myself and my daughter more than I love women in the Middle East who willingly participate in their religion and government and make them one and the same. You got me. (Except that it isn’t Fred Phelps that particularly concerns me, it’s Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum and Rick Perry and the 95% of Republicans who voted multiple times for anti-woman legislation this year.) > [@bahimes](#): > > Take your shoes off in airport security. > Take no liquids more than 3 ounces. > go through the pat down and scan. make it really fucking hard to get an abortion increase difficulties in getting birth control allow pharmacists to withhold the morning after pill from legal adults keep the birth control pill prescription only adultery is still illegal in several states I can only marry one man that I love at a time a gay woman can’t even marry one other woman liquor sales banned on Sundays or during specific hours prevent schools from teaching comprehensive sex ed and reproductive health waste minutes of educational time every day with prayer in schools Creationism taught in science classes It’s so pervasive that, like the mythical frog boiling in water, you may not even notice it. But all of these things are very directly because of (some) Christians in our country influencing laws to make non-Christians act more like Christians. Do you have any similar examples of Muslim people influencing their US lawmakers to pass laws to make us act more like Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/56 "2012-09-15T12:53:10Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > All I can really tell you is why I, personally, feel more unease saying negative things about Muslim fundamentalists than I do Christian fundamentalists: I’m profoundly aware that I don’t \*know \*any Muslim fundamentalists. I’m concerned that my inner fear and prejudice is based on culturally encouraged racism and xenophobia more than legitimate informed critique of the religion and its followers. > > I \*have \*met many Christian fundamentalists, and they \*do \*live up to the stereotypes, and so I feel more free to speak out against them. I’m still quick to limit my attacks to “some Christians” or even “too many Christians”, but yes, when I know some of the people in the group and have worked with them and formed a more informed opinion of them, I’m more willing to speak against them. > > Call it oikophobia if you like. I call it the voice of experience. Sharia law isn’t enough for you? What about the acid attacks on women in Pakistan, or the honor killings of women? Christian fundies don’t get anywhere near that level of crazy, as as group. The roles were reversed 600 years ago, the Muslims were the free thinkers, and the Christians the opposite. That’s not the story today, though. Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/57 "2012-09-15T13:23:36Z")
> [@bahimes](#): > > Take your shoes off in airport security. > Take no liquids more than 3 ounces. > go through the pat down and scan. That’s a drop in the bucket compared to intelligent design, global warming denial, and persecution of women and minorities that Christians are responsible for in my society. I do not deny that Muslims fuck up their own societies with their belief. I can’t get worked up as much about it, because they’re not in my son’s school trying to teach him that he’s going to hell if he uses his brain. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/58 "2012-09-15T13:35:33Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I do not deny that Muslims fuck up their own societies with their belief. I can’t get worked up as much about it, because they’re not in my son’s school trying to teach him that he’s going to hell if he uses his brain. No, they’re just raising up the next generation to be suicide bombers, which your son WILL have to deal with. Just because it doesn’t affect you NOW doesn’t mean it won’t LATER. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/59 "2012-09-16T04:12:17Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > No, they’re just raising up the next generation to be suicide bombers, which your son WILL have to deal with. > > Just because it doesn’t affect you NOW doesn’t mean it won’t LATER. My son probably won’t have to deal with suicide bombers. I’m not saying Muslims are harmless, I’m just saying that I’m dealing with the devil I know and encounter almost every day. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665/60 "2012-09-16T04:49:49Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I do not deny that Muslims fuck up their own societies with their belief. I can’t get worked up as much about it, because they’re not in my son’s school trying to teach him that he’s going to hell if he uses his brain. Will you teach your son to be very careful about what he says online about the Prophet Mohammed, because there is a non-negligible chance that someone reading the same message boards will take offense and vow to kill your son? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-people-uncomfortable-attacking-muslim-fundies-like-they-would-christian-fundies/634665.md?page=4)