# Why are police so quick to kill?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 30, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689 "2017-05-30T00:48:32Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/101 "2017-06-01T20:58:40Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#):
>
> Not only is that a cite, it says nothing about what occurs during police training.
Obviously it does, or we wouldn’t routinely have news stories about cops stepping out of their cars and killing unarmed people within 2-3 seconds.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/102 "2017-06-02T12:16:09Z")
Only if “routinely” means “once in a blue moon, and heavily sensationalized by those with an axe to grind and a media eager to maximize ad revenue”.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/103 "2017-06-02T12:39:47Z")
> [@marshmallow](#):
>
> America is a land of guns, drugs, people in need of mental healthcare, and divisions of race and class. Put it all in a pot, throw a bone in there, and baby you got a stew going.
Actually, what I have read lately is that gun ownership is on the decline. More and more guns are owned by fewer and fewer people.
And widespread ownership of firearms is not a foundational fact of our culture either (and even if it were, those things aren’t set in stone). Up to the Civil War, gun ownership was not common and privately owned firearms were likely to be inherited and inoperable.
Post-Civil War, the armaments industry wanted to keep selling so they created a market, the same way that Ivory created its own market for regular bathing and Gillette created its own market for shaving ladies’ armpits.
Drug use is also much lower than it used to be and among youth it’s plummeting except for cannabis.
It’s also the fact that the vast majority of Americans are safer than anyone has ever been. And policing is far from the most dangerous occupation.
It’s all about perceptions. Our media and culture feed us a steady diet of fear. And cops—whatever their race—feed on that fear constantly, warping their perception of danger.
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### Author:  [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/104 "2017-06-02T16:35:29Z")
There is no “perception”. There is a reality that includes today’s cops being aggressive machines that want to hurt and kill first then find out what is wrong. Most do not live in the community that they “serve and protect” so it further reduces any incentive for them to act like human beings and to help people.
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### Author:  [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/105 "2017-06-05T13:15:05Z")
A lot of modern police officers seem to have been infected by the idea that they have the right not to be afraid. And if something makes them afraid, they have the right to kill it.
I don’t take issue with the idea that a policeman has the right to shoot a suspect who is threatening the officer’s life. However, that premise seems to have been taken to a ridiculous extreme - policemen are getting away with murder because civilian authority is refusing to hold them accountable, so it’s become easier to just shoot.
It’s gotten so ridiculous, that an officer in West Virginia, trained in de-escalation, who refused to shoot a suicidal man with a gun … was FIRED for not murdering that man, who was later murdered by the officer’s colleagues.
A police officer’s job can be dangerous. But that’s the job. You are risking your life to serve and protect the community. You are not a freelance population control specialist. If you shoot every person that makes you feel afraid, you’re just a coward, and don’t belong in uniform.
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### Author:  [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/106 "2017-06-05T13:32:06Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#):
>
> A police officer’s job can be dangerous. But that’s the job. You are risking your life to serve and protect the community. You are not a freelance population control specialist. If you shoot every person that makes you feel afraid, you’re just a coward, and don’t belong in uniform.
Easy for you to say that. Get in his shoes and tell me about it again.
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### Author:  [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/107 "2017-06-05T13:33:39Z")
> [@Chimera](#):
>
> Obviously it does, or we wouldn’t routinely have news stories about cops stepping out of their cars and killing unarmed people within 2-3 seconds.
I wonder what the number of police to citizen encounters there are in a year, then the number of tragic outcomes of these encounters there are. Anyone know how to look that up ?
I would thinking the number of police encounters that go bad are in 2 to 3 decimal point of 1% area. In other words miniscule… Every one a tragedy for sure, but in total a miniscule % of the total encounters.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/108 "2017-06-05T13:40:40Z")
> [@SigMan](#):
>
> Easy for you to say that. Get in his shoes and tell me about it again.
CandedGamera didn’t claim to be qualified to be a cop, so that’s irrelevant.
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### Author:  [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/109 "2017-06-05T16:32:19Z")
> [@SigMan](#):
>
> Easy for you to say that. Get in his shoes and tell me about it again.
I could do that. Find a cop without his gun, show him a picture of a black teenager with a hoodie, he leaps right out of his shoes, and I can try them on.
My father is a lifetime law enforcement professional. If he had ever shot someone in the line of duty, I would have expected a full investigation, and if it had been shown that he acted too hastily and someone had died because of it, I would have expected him to **never be able to touch a weapon in the line of duty again**. At a _minimum_.
Without accountability, the police are just licensed thugs and murderers. And firing the few good cops who actually know how to de-escalate conflict shows that’s what the political establishment WANTS them to be.
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### Author:  [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/110 "2017-06-05T18:22:00Z")
Here you go rambling again. Put yourself in their shoes and tell me about it.
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### Author:  [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/111 "2017-06-05T18:49:13Z")
> [@SigMan](#):
>
> Here you go rambling again. Put yourself in their shoes and tell me about it.
I’m sorry, I’m not racist , corrupt, or insecure enough to be a cop. Or did you mean something else with your nonsense refrain?
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### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/112 "2017-06-05T19:20:39Z")
I haven’t seen any evidence in this thread that police as a whole are “quick to kill”. That’d be an interesting discussion rather than cop bashing and hyperbole.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/113 "2017-06-05T19:21:17Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#):
>
> I’m sorry, I’m not racist , corrupt, or insecure enough to be a cop. Or did you mean something else with your nonsense refrain?
Painting with a pretty broad brush there, eh?
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/114 "2017-06-05T19:29:57Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> I haven’t seen any evidence in this thread that police as a whole are “quick to kill”. That’d be an interesting discussion rather than cop bashing and hyperbole.
I think my [post #27](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20242080&postcount=27) offered evidence (a linked calculation) that US police are significantly quicker to kill than UK police.
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### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/115 "2017-06-05T19:39:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> I think my [post #27](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20242080&postcount=27) offered evidence (a linked calculation) that US police are significantly quicker to kill than UK police.
Evidence they are quicker to kill than their UK counterparts, sure. Evidence that they are quick to kill in general, no. That would consist of something like, police should take X time to kill, but they generally take X-Y time. Both X and Y need to be established.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/116 "2017-06-05T19:44:01Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> Evidence they are quicker to kill than their UK counterparts, sure. Evidence that they are quick to kill in general, no. That would consist of something like, police should take X time to kill, but they generally take X-Y time. Both X and Y need to be established.
I think it’s reasonable to ask why is the US so much quicker to kill than their UK counterparts, and in common parlance, that question might look pretty close to “why are police so quick to kill?”. And I’m pretty sure most of the discussion in this thread would apply to either question.
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### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/117 "2017-06-05T19:45:14Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> Evidence they are quicker to kill than their UK counterparts, sure.
Not even that evidence has been shown. There are obviously more situations with bad guys with guns in the US. More killings does not equal more “quick to kill.”
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### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/118 "2017-06-05T20:00:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> I think it’s reasonable to ask why is the US so much quicker to kill than their UK counterparts, and in common parlance, that question might look pretty close to “why are police so quick to kill?”. And I’m pretty sure most of the discussion in this thread would apply to either question.
I think there are many things that are useful to use as comparisons between countries, but police response is not even close to one of them. The differences between countries are so great as to make the comparison an exercise in controlling for those differences and ultimately futile.
The answer to the question “Why are police so quick to kill?” could easily be answered with “They are not quick to kill.” Before the “why” is determined it first must be established that they are in fact quick to kill.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/119 "2017-06-05T20:05:40Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#):
>
> Not even that evidence has been shown. There are obviously more situations with bad guys with guns in the US. More killings does not equal more “quick to kill.”
US cops are 4 orders of magnitude more likely to kill than UK cops. Differences in guns and crime are no more than a single order of magnitude, on a per capita basis.
If this isn’t enough, what statistics would be?
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### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-police-so-quick-to-kill/787689/120 "2017-06-05T20:23:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> US cops are 4 orders of magnitude more likely to kill than UK cops. Differences in guns and crime are no more than a single order of magnitude, on a per capita basis.
>
> If this isn’t enough, what statistics would be?
The elasticity of the impact of different rates of gun existence and crime would have to be established. In other words, if crime is one order of magnitude greater in the US, you seem to be drawing the conclusion that should translate into one order of magnitude greater police killings. I don’t know why that would be true and without that assumption the comparison falls short. There’s nothing to suggest that these differences should be 1:1 or even linear.
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