# Why are polygraphs still used in the modern world?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 14, 2012, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453 "2012-08-14T09:47:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/1 "2012-08-14T09:47:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Many members of the scientific community consider polygraphy to be pseudoscience.[4] Nonetheless, in some countries polygraphs are used as an interrogation tool with criminal suspects or candidates for sensitive public or private sector employment. US federal government agencies such as the FBI and the CIA and many police departments such as the LAPD use polygraph examinations to interrogate suspects and screen new employees. Within the US federal government, a polygraph examination is also referred to as a psychophysiological detection of deception (PDD) examination.
> **[Polygraph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph)**
>
> A polygraph, often incorrectly referred to as a lie detector test, is a pseudoscientific device or procedure that measures and records several physiological indicators such as blood pressure, pulse, respiration, and skin conductivity while a person is asked and answers a series of questions. The belief underpinning the use of the polygraph is that deceptive answers will produce physiological responses that can be differentiated from those associated with non-deceptive answers In some countries, p...
Yet there is an entire industry built up around this pseudoscience, and while it may not be admissable in court employees can be subjected to this.
How has polygraph testing remained in use with no evidence it actually works?
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### Author:  [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/2 "2012-08-14T09:52:54Z")
It works better than trust, even if it’s not absolute, more often than not.
At issue is how high the standard of certainty should be; not whether or not it’s usually pretty good.
It’s usually pretty good.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/3 "2012-08-14T09:54:33Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#):
>
> It works better than trust, even if it’s not absolute.
Would it also be acceptable to have a psychic screen employees?
I’d be afraid to submit to one knowing they are not scientific fearing I could lose my job over nothing.
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### Author:  [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/4 "2012-08-14T09:57:49Z")
My WAG is that it’s used to intimidate the suspect. The police get a confession and have no need of the actual polygraph results.
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### Author:  [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/5 "2012-08-14T10:01:22Z")
> [@grude](#):
>
> Would it also be acceptable to have a psychic screen employees?
>
> I’d be afraid to submit to one knowing they are not scientific fearing I could lose my job over nothing.
Do you have some sort of evidence that psychics are better than trust, even if they are not absolute?
I get the typical distrust of employers by employees, but most employers would be unwilling to lose good employees if a screening test was a total crapshoot.
Polygraphs remain in use because they mostly work.
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### Author:  [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/6 "2012-08-14T10:24:38Z")
Fwiw, they’re not used in most of the “modern world”.
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### Author:  [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/7 "2012-08-14T10:27:12Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#):
>
> I get the typical distrust of employers by employees, but most employers would be unwilling to lose good employees if a screening test was a total crapshoot.
That assumes that the employers know that it’s a total crapshoot.
> [@](#):
>
> Polygraphs remain in use because they mostly work.
Do you have any evidence that they work any better than chance?
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/8 "2012-08-14T10:46:15Z")
For what it’s worth, Cecil’s column: [How accurate are lie-detector tests?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2935/how-accurate-are-lie-detector-tests)
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/9 "2012-08-14T10:49:36Z")
> [@grude](#):
>
> Would it also be acceptable to have a psychic screen employees?
I bet a psychic would make a pretty good interrogator, actually, since many of their cold reading skills probably overlap with interrogation techniques.
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### Author:  [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/10 "2012-08-14T10:49:48Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#):
>
> I get the typical distrust of employers by employees, but most employers would be unwilling to lose good employees if a screening test was a total crapshoot.
It could simply serve as a pretense. If you _want_ to get rid of someone - either in particular or in general (downsizing) - a failed polygraph test could simply be an excuse to do whatever you want.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/11 "2012-08-14T10:56:41Z")
It’s still in use for the same reason alternative “medicine” is big business. Proof of efficacy is not a criterion, and fantasy reigns.
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/12 "2012-08-14T10:57:29Z")
From what I know (and little I do) most polygraphs results are used more as “this guy needs checking out” as opposed to “he is guilty”.
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/13 "2012-08-14T10:58:44Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#):
>
> It works better than trust
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#):
>
> Do you have some sort of evidence that psychics are better than trust
You don’t get to say “X should be taken on faith” and “Y requires evidence” simply because X is your assertion and Y is the other guy’s.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/14 "2012-08-14T11:06:00Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> From what I know (and little I do) most polygraphs results are used more as “this guy needs checking out” as opposed to “he is guilty”.
Casting suspicion without proof seems so McCarthy-ish.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/15 "2012-08-14T11:07:42Z")
> [@Grumman](#):
>
> It could simply serve as a pretense. If you _want_ to get rid of someone - either in particular or in general (downsizing) - a failed polygraph test could simply be an excuse to do whatever you want.
That is the most baffling thing, a “magic” machine determines your fate and you would think this would have gone to a court case by now.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/16 "2012-08-14T11:14:30Z")
When my business had some cash go missing, I filed a police report. There was a general “feeling” that a particular employee’s son was the likely thief. I casually commented about having everyone submit to a polygraph. I wasn’t serious.
The employee with the son came forward and replaced the cash out of her savings rather than have her son arrested. She also asked that i fire him (he was doing some painting). Whether or not polygraphs work, _she_ thought they did.
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### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/17 "2012-08-14T12:57:24Z")
> [@kayaker](#):
>
> When my business had some cash go missing, I filed a police report. There was a general “feeling” that a particular employee’s son was the likely thief. I casually commented about having everyone submit to a polygraph. I wasn’t serious.
>
> The employee with the son came forward and replaced the cash out of her savings rather than have her son arrested. She also asked that i fire him (he was doing some painting). Whether or not polygraphs work, _she_ thought they did.
…if they actually had to go through with it they could have used this [lie detector.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhxZ4BWeBQ)
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### Author:  [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/18 "2012-08-14T12:59:51Z")
> [@grude](#):
>
> [Yet there is an entire industry built up around this pseudoscience…
There’s your answer.
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### Author:  [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/19 "2012-08-14T13:12:47Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#):
>
> There’s your answer.
I don’t think the intelligence community (a huge user of polygraphs) is concerned about the pseudoscience industry. Wikipedia describes this well:
_The polygraph is more often used as a deterrent to espionage rather than detection. One exception to this was the case of Harold James Nicholson, a CIA employee later convicted of spying for Russia. In 1995, Nicholson had undergone his periodic five year reinvestigation where he showed a strong probability of deception on questions regarding relationships with a foreign intelligence unit. This polygraph test later launched an investigation which resulted in his eventual arrest and conviction. In most cases, however, polygraphs are more of a tool to “scare straight” those who would consider espionage. Jonathan Pollard was advised by his Israeli handlers that he was to resign his job from American intelligence if he was ever told he was subject to a polygraph test. Likewise, John Anthony Walker was advised to by his handlers not to engage in espionage until he had been promoted to the highest position for which a polygraph test was not required, to refuse promotion to higher positions for which polygraph tests were required, and to retire when promotion was mandated.[58] As part of his plea bargain agreement for his case of espionage for the Soviet Union, Robert Hanssen would be made to undergo a polygraph at any time as part of damage assessment. In Hanssen’s 25-year career with the FBI, not once was he made to undergo a polygraph. He later said that if he had been ordered to, he may have thought twice about espionage.[citation needed]_
The intelligence community uses them (despite their problems) because a) they do do something and b) overall, they aren’t lacking in candidates. Who cares if you get a couple false negatives? There is a line out the door to work for the CIA, NSA, DIA, etc.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [August 14, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-polygraphs-still-used-in-the-modern-world/631453/20 "2012-08-14T13:45:57Z")
The very first word in the OP is “Many”. What’s a “many”? Is 20 people many? 10,000 might certainly be many, but if it’s out of a total population of one billion, it’s not particularly significant.
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