# Why are progressive/left-leaning policies more popular in the wealthier of US states? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756 "2014-06-14T05:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/61 "2014-06-16T13:46:17Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This doesn’t make any sense. Taxpayers in every state take this deduction. This makes the issue murky only in an illusory manner. More to the point, the federal tax deduction for state income taxes benefits those state populations who are already rich for other reasons, and thus does not cause some states to be richer than others in the first place. This differs from federal subsidies not connected to this tax policy, which _do_ cause some states to become richer relative to others (and makes it all the more embarrassing for advocates of red-state policies that those states tend to lag behind despite such largesse). ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/62 "2014-06-16T16:07:30Z")
Those claiming that progressive policies produce wealth need to determine which came first, the progressive politics or the wealth. ISTM that the income disparities either predate the split or result from the fact that over the last 150 years, societies whose economy was based on manufacturing and technology have done better than those whose economies were based on agriculture. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe. But a guy down on the bottom rung derives one direct benefit from a new immigrant - he gets to step up to the second-from-the-bottom rung. > > It’s the old story. The Germans were glad to see the Irish arrive and take their place at the bottom. Then the Irish welcomed the Italians to the bottom spot. And then the Italians welcomed the Puerto Ricans and then the Puerto Ricans welcomed the Dominicans. Do you have any evidence that these groups welcomed the various other groups, as you describe? I don’t think that’s historically accurate. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/63 "2014-06-17T15:42:24Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Right-wingers value self-reliance and dog-eat-dog economics. Progressives favor cooperation and compassion. Contrary to simplistic hyperlibertarian economics, cooperation and compassion can improve prosperity. > > Also, the red states tend to have poor schools. Uneducated people are more likely to fall for inane sound-bite rhetoric. A sheltered liberal viewpoint that ignores the fact that cities, where ideological progressives harvest their votes through machine political maneuvers, have the worst schools by far. Those compassionate and cooperative liberals are nowhere to be found when it comes to educating their prize-cow minority blocs. Oh wait, it’s early voting period, there they are on urban radio, hiring a voice talent with just a hint of local dialect showing, telling their oppressed how they must get out and “vote for jobs”. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/64 "2014-06-17T16:31:17Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > A sheltered liberal viewpoint that ignores the fact that cities, where ideological progressives harvest their votes through machine political maneuvers, have the worst schools by far. Those compassionate and cooperative liberals are nowhere to be found when it comes to educating their prize-cow minority blocs. Oh wait, it’s early voting period, there they are on urban radio, hiring a voice talent with just a hint of local dialect showing, telling their oppressed how they must get out and “vote for jobs”. Schools? We’ve done that discussion before: [Blue states have better schools](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=700708&highlight=schools+blue). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/65 "2014-06-17T16:46:31Z")
> [@Fishtar](#): > > A better question is why do so many poor rural communities, ones where half the population get government support, trend conservative? For cultural reasons. Those areas have been government-hostile throughout American history. They take the support, but I’m sure they somehow resent it and blame government for the fact that they need it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/66 "2014-06-17T16:54:42Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Again, that’s simply claptrap. > > Middle Class and lower middle class is not the same as poor. > > Poor white people generally vote democratic or they don’t vote. > > If you think I’m wrong then provide evidence. I am coming late to this thread, but feel compelled to jump in anyway. Regarding evidence, you could compare [this image](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#mediaviewer/File:US_county_household_median_income_2012.png) (household income by county) with [this image](http://politicalmaps.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2012-usa-election-map-by-county-nyt.png) (election results by county). The correlation is not perfect, but it appears that degree of redness in the last presidential election correlates with lower median household income. I don’t believe the whole meme that poor people (all 47% of them?) generally vote Democratic, perhaps you can post a comprehensive cite that backs up this belief of yours… ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/67 "2014-06-17T17:27:01Z")
Wow, this whole discussion is seriously poisoned in my opinion; long on rhetoric and short of facts. Just to keep the stirring going, I think much of this is explained by the market, i.e.: Wealthier districts have better schools and services, which makes people with money want to move there (increasing demand), which allows the wealthier districts to raise prices (i.e. taxes), which allows the districts to offer better schools and services. The engines of wealth creation (i.e. small businesses, high tech firms, medical firms etc…) are mostly located in areas with better services and higher standards of living because this is where the talented and educated people are. This is where they want to be. Well and good, but why do these districts vote Democratic? That is harder to answer as it is [true that the percentage that votes Republican (or at least identifies as conservative) rises with income](http://www.marketplace.org/topics/wealth-poverty/income-upshot/behind-data-political-ideology-and-income). Note, that the percentage that identifies as liberal appears to be independent of income. It is also true that the [college educated are typically more progressive](http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/section-3-demographics-and-news-sources/). I refuse to believe that Boulder, CO and San Francisco, CA are overwhelmingly democratic and progressive because all the poor people in these districs are voting this way and overwhelming the wealthy (there are very few poor people in either of these cities) just as I don’t believe that McCreary County, KY (per capital income \<$10k) is overwhelmingly conservative in spite of all the poor people that live there (don’t the poorest 47% vote democrat?). You know what is interesting to compare? The [percentage of adults with college degrees by county](http://hudsonvalleygeologist.blogspot.com/2011/02/adults-with-college-degrees-by-county.html) to [the way those counties voted in the last presidential election](http://politicalmaps.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2012-usa-election-map-by-county-nyt.png). At first glance it looks like a pretty good correlation. But it still does not explain the causation. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/68 "2014-06-17T18:02:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Schools? We’ve done that discussion before: > > [Blue states have better schools](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=700708&highlight=schools+blue). Are those numbers corrected for racial makeup of the state? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/69 "2014-06-17T18:09:26Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Also, richer states are richer because they have large, economically powerful cities. Large city means machine politics. Machine politics means progressive legislation. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > A sheltered liberal viewpoint that ignores the fact that cities, where ideological progressives harvest their votes through machine political maneuvers . . . Urban political machines are a thing of the past even in Chicago, now; the only surviving entities of that kind nowadays are rural courthouse rings. And, “ideological progressives” never controlled the machines anyway; the machines’ approach to politics was always more businesslike than ideological. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/70 "2014-06-17T18:12:07Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Are those numbers corrected for racial makeup of the state? 😕 “Corrected” how? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/71 "2014-06-17T19:48:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 “Corrected” how? Do students of a given racial group, X, perform better in Democratic States than in Republican ones. I have no idea, in general, but a much talked about example from the last few years is that Wisconsin has much higher test scores than Texas, but this is entirely attributable to the fact that Texas has a larger African-American population. Students of every racial group have, on average, higher test scores in Texas than in Wisconsin. If you want to compare school systems between states, it would be best to correct for demographics. [http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/03/longhorns-17-badgers-1.html](http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2011/03/longhorns-17-badgers-1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756/72 "2014-06-17T20:15:10Z")
Demographics, like where people live? Or do you pretty much just mean race? It’s funny - in the linked-to thread, someone else brought up the Texas/Wisconsin cherry for picking. You could have read the thread. The preference for blue states was there when just including white kids only. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressive-left-leaning-policies-more-popular-in-the-wealthier-of-us-states/690756.md?page=3)