# Why are progressives to blame for not getting these bills passed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 3, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757 "2021-11-03T22:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/41 "2021-11-06T02:32:18Z")
Some Progressive policies are popular. Note the early 20th century Populist / Progressive movement was kind of the same way…they had a lot of ideas, some were way out there and kind of crazy, and not very popular. But some were very popular. Over time the popular ideas got implemented, and left with only the non-mainstream ideas left, they faded from power. I think the GOP has been flat wrong on climate politics for years, even young conservatives are fairly green, but the old scions of the party are still stick in 1990s denialism or quasi-denialism. Progressive positions on climate are mostly popular, aside from when they delve too far into radicalism. Paid family leave, universal pre-K, and universal healthcare coverage are also generally much more popular than their support levels in Congress indicate. But I could write out a long list of progressive policies that would be deeply unpopular in most of the country. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/42 "2021-11-06T03:39:46Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Pass the bill they can, and then advertise the hell out of it literally everywhere. Show people actual improvements in their lives, even if they’re not as great as we’d hoped they would be. We’ve heard this before. “We have to pass this bill, so you can find out what’s in it.” Just no. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/43 "2021-11-06T03:45:24Z")
Infrastructure Bill passed 228-206, with 13 Republicans crossing over and 6 Dems in the opposite direction. Next a vote on the ground rules for bringing BBB to the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/44 "2021-11-06T10:03:20Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > We’ve heard this before. > > “We have to pass this bill, so you can find out what’s in it.” > > Just no. Uhm, no, that quote had nothing to do with what I’ve said. We actually know exactly what’s in these bills. What we don’t know is if they’ll ever actually pass. What we also know is that a large percentage of Americans are both massively ignorant, and actively opposed to improving on that situation, which is where the advertising comes into it. You need messaging so ubiquitous that even the most aggressively ignorant voters can’t avoid learning something. Every project undertaken with money from this bill, should it pass, needs to be plastered with signs that not only say, “Building Back Better, from Biden and His Democrat Buddies!”, but also: “Remember, Senator X of the Republican party voted against all this! Why didn’t Senator X want you to have a good-paying job?” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/45 "2021-11-06T13:18:35Z")
> **[These 6 House Democrats voted against the infrastructure bill. These 13...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/politics/infrastructure-bill-house-democrats-voted-no-republicans-voted-yes/index.html)** > > The House on Friday voted 228-206 to pass a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill after hours of delays and debating among Democrats, sending the bipartisan measure to President Joe Biden's desk for his signature. "Here are the six House Democrats who broke from their party to vote against the bill: ``` Rep. Jamaal Bowman of New York Rep. Cori Bush of Missouri Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota Rep. Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan ``` 13 Republicans vote in support Thirteen Republicans in the House voted with Democrats to approve the bill. They are: ``` Rep. Don Bacon of Nebraska Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania Rep. Andrew Gabarino of New York Rep. Anthony Gonzalez of Ohio Rep. John Katko of New York Rep. Adam Kinzinger of Illinois Rep. Nicole Malliotakis of New York Rep. David McKinley of West Virginia Rep. Tom Reed of New York Rep. Chris Smith of New Jersey Fred Upton of Michigan Rep. Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey Rep. Don Young of Alaska" ``` (Sorry Fred Upton for the lack of a Title for you, that’s how CNN printed it!) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/46 "2021-11-06T15:43:22Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > "Here are the six House Democrats who broke from their party to vote against the bill: > > ```auto > Rep. Jamaal Bowman of New York > Rep. Cori Bush of Missouri > Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York > Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota > Rep. Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts > Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan > > ``` I do hope that every day, between now and Nov 2022, each of them has to explain why they voted “NO” on this bill. Twice a day if BBB dies on the vine. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/47 "2021-11-06T15:44:57Z")
I hear ya. I’m usually a big fan of AOC. I’d bet that they knew about the Republican support, and gambled with “taking a stand”. But phooey! still. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/48 "2021-11-06T15:55:43Z")
Once again, bedrock political truth is that leftists are illegitimate. Therefore leftist hardball political tactics are illegitimate. It’s a shame the squad is forcing Mansion and Cinema to kill the BBB. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/49 "2021-11-06T16:05:42Z")
> [@lum\_s\_husband](#): > > Once again, bedrock political truth is that leftists are illegitimate. Therefore leftist hardball political tactics are illegitimate. Not illegitimated. Infantile. If you put your principles ahead of your alleged goals, fuck your principles and the horse you rode in on. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/50 "2021-11-06T16:16:56Z")
Once again it’s a shame that the left is forcing reasonable centrists to kill the BBB. Adults would realize that by being for any particular thing, they force decent people to oppose it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/51 "2021-11-06T16:20:24Z")
Adults choose their actions, they are not forced by others. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/52 "2021-11-06T16:23:29Z")
Funny then that the squad in the House will force the Senate to kill the BBB. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/53 "2021-11-06T16:34:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I do hope that every day, between now and Nov 2022, each of them has to explain why they voted “NO” on this bill. Twice a day if BBB dies on the vine. They have explained. The think BBB is going to get gutted now. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/54 "2021-11-06T16:38:28Z")
> [@lum\_s\_husband](#): > > Adults would realize that by being for any particular thing, they force decent people to oppose it. Adults and decent people appear to have voted for the Infrastructure bill. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/55 "2021-11-06T16:43:29Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > They have explained. The think BBB is going to get gutted now. It was always going to be gutted by the 50/50 senate. We have yet to see if it makes it out of the House. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/56 "2021-11-06T16:45:13Z")
The progressives clearly made a tactical mistake here regardless of how you look at it. However it’s not like there’s going to be a big revelation where someone gets them to finally admit their secret plan. They were public about it from the start and are quite happy to continue to talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/57 "2021-11-06T16:47:31Z")
Continues to be darkly amusing to me how similar “moderate liberals” are to, say, Trump supporters, in how reflexively and unreasonably they snap to a completely black and white perspective as soon as their guy doesn’t get his way, for any reason, in any way. You can have a long conversation about _why_ a progressive _might_ hypothetically see tactical value in doing something differently from how Joe Biden wants them to, every once in a while. But as soon as they actually do it–because they’re progressives, and that’s what they’re there to do–it’s just “they’re babies, they’re stupid, they’re selfish.” Impossible to tell whether it’s coming from the right wing of the party or the right wing of the country. Same degree of willingness to actually grapple with the underlying political differences. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/58 "2021-11-06T16:53:24Z")
I’m about 99% sure they got the word from Pelosi that it was ok for them to vote no, because she already knew it had enough Republican support. If there’s one thing Pelosi is good at, it’s counting votes. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/59 "2021-11-06T16:53:54Z")
I hear everything you’re saying and you’re not wrong. But here’s where these progressives cross the line between fighting for progressive values and becoming childishly obstinate. It’s when they vote “NO” for a bill that every Democrat and some Republicans (and the majority of the country) supports. This was done to make a petulant point. They put their principles ahead of what’s good not just for the Democratic President that supports them, or the Democratic party that needs as many wins as it can get right now, but ahead of what’s good for the country. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757/60 "2021-11-06T16:55:03Z")
ISTM at this point that the biggest sin of the progressives was overstating their unity. It’s really hard to believe that Jayapal went from dozens of hardliners a week ago to literally just the squad now. If she had been up front about it we could have saved a lot of time, because it’s likely Pelosi always had the 10-15 Republicans she needed to overcome a handful of defectors. I think this is a massive negative in the future even just from a self-interested perspective because next time Pelosi is going to call the CPC’s bluff rather than spend a month longer haggling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-progressives-to-blame-for-not-getting-these-bills-passed/953757.md?page=4)