# Why are religions more stable and long-lasting than other human created institutions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-religions-more-stable-and-long-lasting-than-other-human-created-institutions/701635 "2014-10-17T23:43:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-religions-more-stable-and-long-lasting-than-other-human-created-institutions/701635/21 "2014-10-19T14:45:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s not just comparison shopping for specific afterlife “rewards”: it’s about one’s fundamental group identity and social structures. > > A better comparison would be with, say, human languages rather than corporations or even nation-states. Religions are not self-evidently more “stable and long-lasting” than languages are. Disagree; see below. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Largely because they are loosely defined and have no specific territory that can be overrun, unlike a nation for example. It’s the difference between destroying a forest and destroying the entire species of tree that comprises the forest, or between conquering a nation and destroying the culture or the language spoken there. > > I wouldn’t call them more “stable” however; they can change wildly without the name changing, and the name is all that really defines a religion, at least for the purpose of counting a religion’s longevity. The Christianity of today isn’t much like the Christianity of 2,000 years ago, but it’s considered to be the same thing. > > I’ll note that according to Wikipedia’s [list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies) of oldest companies, the oldest dates back to AD 578. That puts it at almost exactly the same age as Islam; so companies can rival major religions in age. I think you touch on the core of the issue here, but didn’t take your thesis far enough. For thousands of years, humanity overall has been in a theological “Just So” mode of thinking/mind set. By contrast, we’ve only had a few hundred years of Enlightenment, and at best a century or so of increasingly widespread secular thinking, concentrated mostly in industrialized nations with the educational infrastructure and cultural diversity to challenge traditional theological institutions and institutional thinking. The secular line of (paraphrasing loosely), “You’re born; you live; you die. Make the best of it while you’re here, because ultimately we’re all just worm food” is kind of bleak to someone raised to believe (and has had that belief reinforced through widespread cultural contact) that a lifetime of “good” behavior merits an afterlife of heavenly bliss. So they reject secular thinking for the more comforting religious line; _that’s_ the secret, IMO, of the longevity of religion and religious institutions. And taking your cite at face value, I like that an Irish pub made the top-10 list of oldest businesses. Guinness for everyone! ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-religions-more-stable-and-long-lasting-than-other-human-created-institutions/701635/22 "2014-10-19T14:55:24Z")
Religions are really, really good at brainwashing small children. Once they hook the kid, they then brainwash them into believing that when they grow up and have kids of their own, they _must_ bring those kids in for brainwashing or they will burn in hayull, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-religions-more-stable-and-long-lasting-than-other-human-created-institutions/701635/23 "2014-10-19T15:48:24Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > They aren’t stable. > Theological beliefs get re-interpreted, get seen through strange cultural lenses, get infected with ideas from other faiths. > > Compare early Christianity with today’s Catholic Church. > > The Early Christians held services in secret, used few religious icons (few images of saint, crucifixes, etc), & had no priests. They took turns preaching, men & women alike. True, but that form of Christianity was the dominant institutional expression for maybe 100 years. On the other hand, the Catholic Church is obviously the same institution that it was in 600 C.E., and it’s hard to make any argument that it wasn’t the same institution at least as far back as the Council of Nicea, even if you discount the claims of apostolic succession going back to Jesus (which I do). That’s an impressive track record however you look at it. It’s matched by very few institutions of any kind, and I doubt you’d find the same degree of continuity in most institutions, however defined, with even a third of that longevity. ---
**Author:** ![nani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-religions-more-stable-and-long-lasting-than-other-human-created-institutions/701635/24 "2014-10-20T02:06:55Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > In many cases they think more about their beliefs and realize they are not what they want, maybe see that there are other ways of looking at things and decide to change. > Many atheists were once other religions until they realized the truth wasn’t as they saw it. Some decide they no longer wanted to follow that belief they were taught or followed. > > A lot depends on their personal life or outlook, some want to believe in their parents way of life nor want to have family difficulties, > > There can be as many reasons for changing as staying in a particular religion. Example: Many Catholics( Like Luther) find a passage that fits what they want in their religion and some change to Catholic because they like that idea or believe its History. That is to me what faith is all about. One finds something that suits their personal life and chooses to follow that teaching. There are many sides to some religions, many pick and choose or just follow what they personally want. Ah, I see what you mean now. Thank you. > [@ExTank](#): > > For thousands of years, humanity overall has been in a theological “Just So” mode of thinking/mind set. By contrast, we’ve only had a few hundred years of Enlightenment, and at best a century or so of increasingly widespread secular thinking, concentrated mostly in industrialized nations with the educational infrastructure and cultural diversity to challenge traditional theological institutions and institutional thinking. > > The secular line of (paraphrasing loosely), “You’re born; you live; you die. Make the best of it while you’re here, because ultimately we’re all just worm food” is kind of bleak to someone raised to believe (and has had that belief reinforced through widespread cultural contact) that a lifetime of “good” behavior merits an afterlife of heavenly bliss. > > So they reject secular thinking for the more comforting religious line; _that’s_ the secret, IMO, of the longevity of religion and religious institutions. How does “Make the best of it while you’re here” follow from “ultimately we’re all just worm food”? What does “make the best of it” mean? Do you think that maybe the Enlightenment carried with it a number of assumptions and values from its European context, including ideas about what “religion” is or what “make the best of it” means, and those might still be influential today, even in “secular” thinking? I think that you are right that many people react against a “bleak” worldview that they feel with “secular thinking” and in contrast feel better with their religious worldviews. I’d just replace “comforting” with “meaningful.” The thing that makes many people find the outlook you described to be bleak is that for them it’s not meaningful. For one thing, they don’t necessarily make the jump from “born, live, die” to “so let’s make this world the best we can, it’s all we’ve got.” In contrast, their religious worldviews, in seen and unseen ways, fill their lives with meaning. The things they do, the way they live, how they react to failure, to success, etc. Even if it is not always comforting, like for the people who go through intense hardship for their faith, or even for people scared of hell. Of course I think that people can definitely derive meaning from life without incorporating an afterlife or deities or churches or scriptures or whatever. But in doing so, they are still doing just that - making meaning in their lives. And at least for me, “making the best of it” means living a life that feels meaningful to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-religions-more-stable-and-long-lasting-than-other-human-created-institutions/701635.md?page=1)