# Why Are Republicans Allowed To Vote? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570 "2015-09-01T02:37:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/181 "2015-09-05T11:52:38Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This is your best example? Please point me to a quote of mine where I said this was my best (or worst) example. Thank you. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > A case from _10 years ago_ Is there a time limit on the examples of liberal lies, bigotry and hate that we’re allowed to use? > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > where the left screwed up, immediately copped to it Your reading comprehension can be drastically improved. As I mentioned in my original post, the “journalists” who came up with this hoax, continued to defend this story years after it first aired. Who do they blame for the whole fiasco? Why, “the far right blogosphere bully boys”, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/182 "2015-09-05T12:02:25Z")
But continuing with the topic of institutionalized hate and racism in the liberal press, we must turn our attention to (soon-to-be) 25th anniversary of a Jewish pogrom in New York City. If you were to take a wild guess and guess that one of its main ideologues and the man, also responsible for numerous racial hoaxes, became a host of a prime time MSNBC show, you’d be (unsurprisingly) correct. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/183 "2015-09-05T12:23:15Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Please point me to a quote of mine where I said this was my best (or worst) example. Thank you. It’s the one _you_ brought up front and center. Got any others? > [@](#): > > Is there a time limit on the examples of liberal lies, bigotry and hate that we’re allowed to use? I dunno, I think that if I was asked “What’s the last major republican screw-up you can think of” and my answer was “Whitewater” (I wanted to say “Iraq” but then I realized that the analogy would no longer work), I’d feel pretty fuckin’ silly! You know, given that many of those involved are no longer in politics and have little to no influence on the national discourse. Got anything more recent? > [@](#): > > Your reading comprehension can be drastically improved. As I mentioned in my original post, the “journalists” who came up with this hoax, continued to defend this story years after it first aired. Who do they blame for the whole fiasco? Why, “the far right blogosphere bully boys”, of course. Personally, I don’t care if Dan Rather clings to this story like it’s his last lifeline. The man ceased to be a relevant part of the national conversation almost immediately after the story was retracted. He failed to fact-check his claims, he lost credibility, and is no longer the figurehead he once was. Whether or not he holds that the story was legitimate now is neither here nor there; the news network in question has removed him from any position of power or legitimacy. I really feel the need to highlight this. After a storied career winning numerous emmys and peabodies as well as being inducted into the television hall of fame for his decades of work as a newscaster and journalist, he lost his credibility over one bad report and basically became a nobody overnight. After _43 years_ with the network, he gets dropped like a rock over one fake story. And of course, Rather _didn’t_ cling to the story. > [@](#): > > Last week, amid increasing questions about the authenticity of documents used in support of a “60 Minutes Wednesday” story about President Bush’s time in the Texas Air National Guard, CBS News vowed to re-examine the documents in question-and their source-vigorously. And we promised that we would let the American public know what this examination turned up, whatever the outcome. > > Now, after extensive additional interviews, I no longer have the confidence in these documents that would allow us to continue vouching for them journalistically. I find we have been misled on the key question of how our source for the documents came into possession of these papers. That, combined with some of the questions that have been raised in public and in the press, leads me to a point where-if I knew then what I know now-I would not have gone ahead with the story as it was aired, and I certainly would not have used the documents in question. > > But we did use the documents. We made a mistake in judgment, and for that I am sorry. It was an error that was made, however, in good faith and in the spirit of trying to carry on a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism. > > Please know that nothing is more important to us than people’s trust in our ability and our commitment to report fairly and truthfully. > **[Dan Rather Statement On Memos](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dan-rather-statement-on-memos/)** > > Newsman No Longer Has Confidence In Authenticity Of Bush Guard Documents Note that the date on that is the 20th of September, less than two weeks after the initial segment ran and still a solid month before election day. So… source on your claim that the journalists involved held it up as true years after the fact? But since you brought up this example, I wonder - is there anything in the right-wing sphere that’s somehow analogous to this? Well, I mean, we could talk about FOX News’s coverage of the Iraq war. How many people lost their jobs at FOX when we found out that there were no WMDs in Iraq, and that the whole story was a complete sham? Oh, right. Nobody. Judith Miller got fired… From the New York Times, because her reporting on the subject was _awful_. You may recognize Miller as a member of the FOX News team, and that’s because FOX picked her up in 2008. The Dan Rather segment really is illustrative of the difference here. Republicans love to bring up the Killian documents as an example of the failure of the leftist media and of liberals lying, but once you get past the surface level and look at what actually happened, what you find is a bogus news story that was retracted almost immediately after it was ran with great fanfare, followed by one of America’s most beloved news anchors essentially dropping off the face of the planet as a result. Compared to FOX, Rather and CBS were fucking _saints_. (And this isn’t even going into the long-standing suspicion that Rove had something to do with it, that this was entirely his “style”, and that this completely took all the attention away from Bush’s legitimately embarrassing _real_ war record.) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/184 "2015-09-05T12:40:15Z")
Also, just for shits and giggles: Body count (Killian Documents): 0 Body count (Iraq War): \>200,000 ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/185 "2015-09-05T15:19:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay, so if Christians riot and murder over blasphemy, then that’s on those who blaspheme. It’s possible for more than one person to bear responsibility for an event. And in fact, person X can be responsible for an event, and person Y can also be responsible for the event, without that decreasing person X’s level of responsibility. As I’ve posted several times already in this thread: > [@](#): > > You absolutely positively have the right to make a work of art which depicts Michael Brown and Treyvon Martin being urinated on by Satan in hell. If you make such a work of art and rent billboards all around poor black neighborhoods and put your work up in all those places, and a riot occurs, and someone is killed, you sure as hell should feel some guilt for that death. What’s your response to that? (And **Alkash** , what’s your response to it?) ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/186 "2015-09-05T15:28:23Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > If someone tells you “You cannot say X”, there is _no_ answer to that which actually defends free speech that does not involve saying X. I’m a very passionate defender of free speech. But that’s speech free from governmental intrusion. There is zero reason to think that the US government would try to stop me from drawing cartoons of Mohammed. There are groups of people who wish I would not do so, and might respond with violence. So? That’s been true about some random things I could say or draw since the founding of the nation, and is no no way a sign of impending censorship, or anything of that sort. It’s absolutely positively 100% a bad thing that some Muslims would react with actual violence to something drawing a cartoon. But it’s not a free speech issue, it’s a some-people-are-dicks issue. Remember when that pastor was going to burn a Koran? If he had gone through with it, and some Muslim had been angered by that and driven to his church and planted a bomb which killed a third party, the bomber would be 100% legally responsible for that death, and should be punished to the full extent of the law, with the provocation having no legal weight. But the Pastor sure as hell should feel some moral and ethical guilt for that death. Those two things are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/187 "2015-09-05T15:54:17Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > And this, ladies and gentlemen, is a prime example of liberal bigotry in action. Here are the differences between me and you: (1) I respond to the actual things you say, not exaggerated caricatures of them (2) I don’t claim that you somehow symbolize conservatives as a whole > [@](#): > > The message here is that Muslims are so animalistic, that seeing a cartoon (a fucking cartoon) they don’t like, triggers them to go on a murderous rampage. No it isn’t. It is an established fact that SOME Muslims get very upset, and even murderously violent. Note the use of the word SOME. And that is an established fact, it’s happened enough times that we know it to be true. That is a bad and unacceptable thing. I don’t see how deliberately poking at them with a poking stick is likely to improve that situation. (In fact, it’s not at all clear how to improve that situation, at least in the short term…) > [@](#): > > Therefore, please, no offending cartoons. I have certainly never said anything of that sort. You have the ironclad 100% legal right to draw cartoons of Mohammed. If you choose to do so, you also shoulder partial responsibility for any reactions that occur. Does that mean you should NOT do so? No, it means precisely what I just said. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/188 "2015-09-05T16:00:22Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I’m a very passionate defender of free speech. But that’s speech free from governmental intrusion. There is zero reason to think that the US government would try to stop me from drawing cartoons of Mohammed. > > There are groups of people who wish I would not do so, and might respond with violence. So? That’s been true about some random things I could say or draw since the founding of the nation, and is no no way a sign of impending censorship, or anything of that sort. > It’s absolutely positively 100% a bad thing that some Muslims would react with actual violence to something drawing a cartoon. But it’s not a free speech issue, it’s a some-people-are-dicks issue. > Remember when that pastor was going to burn a Koran? If he had gone through with it, and some Muslim had been angered by that and driven to his church and planted a bomb which killed a third party, the bomber would be 100% legally responsible for that death, and should be punished to the full extent of the law, with the provocation having no legal weight. But the Pastor sure as hell should feel some moral and ethical guilt for that death. Those two things are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. I disagree at a fundamental level. If something you say riles an unhinged sociopath up enough for them to go on a riot, or a killing spree, then that is _not_ on you. It doesn’t matter if you told him to. It’s simply not my fault if my crude doodle of Mohammed causes a jihadist to kill someone. If an earnest critique of a religion or simply a cartoon in childish mockery is enough to cause you to want to kill someone, _you are the problem_, and I refuse to consider myself “dickish” because of that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/189 "2015-09-05T17:17:28Z")
If you are aware of the risk of provoking violence, and you proceed anyway, you have taken a share of responsibility. That risk should be balanced and weighed against the necessity. Whenever I choose to participate in an anti-war demonstration, I know it will attract raving assholes. I know that there is a chance that violence will result. Weighing that risk against remaining silent while my country does something wretched and immoral, I go ahead. It is necessary. What is the necessity to slander _and terrorize_ innocent American Muslims? What is to be gained? A “piss Jesus” is stupid and mean, but are Lutherans and Methodists a persecuted minority, have they reason to fear their neighbors? Remember OK City? How sure and certain so many of us were that it was Islamic terrorism? How many innocent people suffered that day for nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/190 "2015-09-05T18:20:01Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Oh, the gun rights nuts keep \*assuring \*me that it’s just as easy to kill someone without a gun as with one. The same number of deaths happen either way. We can kill them with knives or bananas or something. 🆒 There’s always Heinlein’s 1950s-style death ray that kills only Chinese. After cleverly tricking Fox News into a campaign — say a week, two weeks at the outside — stating that Obama is Chinese, it could be modified with a Mylar filter to kill only those who believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/191 "2015-09-05T18:50:00Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > There’s always Heinlein’s 1950s-style death ray that kills only Chinese. > > After cleverly tricking Fox News into a campaign — say a week, two weeks at the outside — stating that Obama is Chinese, it could be modified with a Mylar filter to kill only those who believe it. It’d be a regular mylar massacre! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/192 "2015-09-05T18:51:11Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > There’s always Heinlein’s 1950s-style death ray that kills only Chinese… Which would lead to massive disorientation. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/193 "2015-09-05T22:50:38Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I disagree at a fundamental level. If something you say riles an unhinged sociopath up enough for them to go on a riot, or a killing spree, then that is _not_ on you. There’s a big difference to me based on whether the outcome was predictable. If you draw a cartoon of the moon, and it turns out that your next door neighbor has a bizarre thing about moons and he kills a bunch of people, that is certainly not your fault. If it is known that there are thousands of ordinary-seeming people around the world with moon-cartoon-homicidal-rage, then it’s a different thing entirely. It’s also worth pointing out that you are not necessarily taking risks just for yourself. If you want to publish cartoons of Mohammed because you believe that whatever principle you would be proving is worth the risk to your life, hey, by all means. But what if you do that, and then someone shows up to kill you but accidentally blows up the house next door and 4 totally innocent people die. Are you telling me you would feel not the slightest tiny bit of a twinge of responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![bosbfdsfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@bosbfdsfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bosbfdsfd)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/194 "2015-09-06T23:22:31Z")
Yeah, the claims that liberals and conservatives are equal is disingenuous to say the least. The left is _far_ more bigoted and hateful than the right. And despite the crying and sobbing of fake progressives, more and more people are believing this 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/195 "2015-09-07T02:34:57Z")
> [@bosbfdsfd](#): > > Yeah, the claims that liberals and conservatives are equal is disingenuous to say the least. The left is _far_ more bigoted and hateful than the right. And despite the crying and sobbing of fake progressives, more and more people are believing this 🙂 Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/196 "2015-09-07T03:04:14Z")
Very typical conservative projection. They can only see the world through the lenses of their own bigotry. Pop quiz: which ideology wanted to ban gay marriage? Wanted to ban interracial marriage? Wanted to ban integrated schools? Wanted (still wants!) to let shopkeepers ban blacks and Jews from access? Tried to keep women out of the military? Hint: it wasn’t the left. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/197 "2015-09-07T03:31:15Z")
Those fucking centrists! I _knew_ it! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/198 "2015-09-07T03:44:35Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Very typical conservative projection. They can only see the world through the lenses of their own bigotry. > > Pop quiz: which ideology wanted to ban gay marriage? Wanted to ban interracial marriage? Wanted to ban integrated schools? Wanted (still wants!) to let shopkeepers ban blacks and Jews from access? Tried to keep women out of the military? > > Hint: it wasn’t the left. The left got to the right place on those positions a few years before the right did. I’m not sure that’s a profile in moral courage. If the left was serious about civil rights, they’d be for multiple marriage right now, not waiting until public opinion turns in about 20 years… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/199 "2015-09-07T04:07:18Z")
> [@bosbfdsfd](#): > > Yeah, the claims that liberals and conservatives are equal is disingenuous to say the least. The left is _far_ more bigoted and hateful than the right. And despite the crying and sobbing of fake progressives, more and more people are believing this 🙂 > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Cite? You have to realize that some conservatives have a special definition of bigoted and hateful. So if you suggest all religions deserve equal treatment, you’re being bigoted and hateful to Christians. If you suggest all genders and sexual orientations deserve equal treatment, you’re being bigoted and hateful to straight men. If you suggest all races deserve equal treatment, you’re being bigoted and hateful to white people. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570/200 "2015-09-07T04:35:16Z")
Actually, the disagreement is over where the line is between religious practice and secular law. We already establish that churches themselves can discriminate any way they want. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-allowed-to-vote/729570.md?page=11)