# Why are Republicans generally more patriotic than Democrats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 19, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627 "2017-07-19T05:03:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/81 "2017-07-19T15:45:51Z")
In addition to the tribalism mentioned by **Wesley Clark** , the converse side is that many Democrats have more of a “I am a citizen of the world” or “American arrogance and jingoism needs to be taken down a peg, from within” attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/82 "2017-07-19T15:46:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not sure I’d call it “better”, but I certainly would call it “more”. As I noted in the other thread, pollsters often use some variation of this “extremely” / “very” / “somewhat” formulation in questions to measure (and I’ll probably mess up explaining this part) the degree of the respondent’s feelings. I think that what the stats you posted point out is that more Democrats than Republicans realize that extremism is not usually a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/83 "2017-07-19T15:47:49Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > My viewpoint is formed by stuff like this. > > [http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2017/06/18/patriots-have-a-short-time-to-act-because-evil-never-takes-a-day-off-genocide-awaits/](http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2017/06/18/patriots-have-a-short-time-to-act-because-evil-never-takes-a-day-off-genocide-awaits/) > > [https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2013/once-again-gun-control-spurs-‘patriots’](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2013/once-again-gun-control-spurs-%E2%80%98patriots%E2%80%99) > > [https://thinkprogress.org/white-militiamen-openly-carrying-large-guns-descend-on-ferguson-5b8507c27424](https://thinkprogress.org/white-militiamen-openly-carrying-large-guns-descend-on-ferguson-5b8507c27424) > > [Armed 'patriot' accidentally shoots self in leg at Gettysburg battlefield - pennlive.com](http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/07/patriot_shot_in_leg_gettysburg.html) > > [Disarming Republican Anarchists | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-burnett/republicans-gun-control_b_2836368.html) > > And I’m still waiting to hear how "advocating for the overthrow of the federal government = love of country. Sorry, second link was bad, let me try again. > **[Once Again, Gun Control Spurs the ‘Patriots’](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2013/once-again-gun-control-spurs-%E2%80%98patriots%E2%80%99)** > > It’s déjà vu all over again. And remember, self-defined patriots were responsible for the second largest terrorist attack on American soil. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/84 "2017-07-19T15:51:45Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I think you missed the point. I don’t think so, but admit it’s possible. I _think_ his point was something along the lines of ‘flag-waving is jingoistic and stupid’. I wonder how committed he is to that view. I hope **Sage Rat** comes back to clarify. > [@Procrustus](#): > > Anyway, I really think it’s just that the Right has turned the concept of patriotism into a dirty word. The Left recoils from the ugliness, while the Right embraces it. I don’t think so, or at least, not very much of the Left recoils from the dirty word. 89% of Democrats told Gallup that supposedly-dirty word described them, in varying degrees. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/85 "2017-07-19T15:56:48Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > And remember, self-defined patriots were responsible for the second largest terrorist attack on American soil. That’s a good point – Tim McVeigh was affiliated (in his own statements) with the “Patriot movement”, and likely considered himself extremely patriotic (when arrested, he was wearing a t-shirt with the Jefferson quote “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/86 "2017-07-19T15:58:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What makes you think that Republicans’ definition of patriotism ends at ‘saying the magic phrase “I am a patriot”’? I’m responding to this post of yours: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think that self-identified patriotism is a fine measurement, but since some have taken issue with it, I wonder if they have a better measurement. Or perhaps they consider it just a mystery of the universe that we’ll never know the answer to. You’re the one who said self-identified patriotism is a fine measure of one’s patriotism. I don’t understand the confusion, except the part where you expect the burden of quantifying patriotism to fall on everybody except yourself, the one who is making the original claim. At any rate it should be evident that most Democrats seem to equate patriotism with service and citizenship, whereas most Republicans do not. That’s pretty striking if true. Of course, if I’m wrong, all you have to do is explain how to quantify Republican patriotism. Easy enough, right? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/87 "2017-07-19T16:00:21Z")
The problem with defining patriotism is that virtually anyone can claim that their actions represent “patriotism.” Even if someone bombs his own country, he can claim he’s doing it for the good of his country. Even if someone engages in numerous anti-American protests and flag-burnings all day long, she can claim she’s doing it “to protest against what America has become.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/88 "2017-07-19T16:00:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Ahhhh, so your theory is that they’re the true patriots, but they’re also too humble to admit it to a pollster? :rolleyes: No. They’re too smart. Smart enough to get what a poll question like that is really asking, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/89 "2017-07-19T16:00:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think so, but admit it’s possible. I _think_ his point was something along the lines of ‘flag-waving is jingoistic and stupid’. I wonder how committed he is to that view. I hope **Sage Rat** comes back to clarify. Then you missed his point. I would say his point was that _just_ waving a flag does not make you a patriot. There are other things that indicate your level of devotion to preserving the ideals and health of the country. IMHO, the harder one waves that flag, the less likely they are committed to actually sacrificing their comfort or convenience for the good of the country. For instance, you consider yourself to be patriotic, right? And yet, you have claimed on several occasions that your highest priority when it comes to the healthcare bill is lowering your personal costs, even if that is detrimental to your fellow citizens. Patriotism isn’t what you say, whether it be singing the national anthem louder, waving the flag harder, eating more hot dogs on the fourth of july, or even how you answer a question on a survey. Patriotism is what you do. Patriotism is the ideals that you uphold. Patriotism is helping out your fellow citizens, whether they are poor, minorities, gay or transgendered. Patriotism is putting the needs of the country above your personal wants or desires. Add another question to the survey, “Would you be willing to take a 4% cut on your insurance premiums if it means that tens of millions of your fellow americans will not be able to get health insurance?” Be interesting to see how that lines up with self identified “patriots”. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/90 "2017-07-19T16:03:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you feel that definition is applicable, for example, to [the Honor Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI_DBLYoZjc)? Obviously that’s more than flag waving. A soldier who made a real commitment is on military duty honoring a fallen soldier who made a total commitment. This is much different than sitting in the audience, waving a flag, and saying “yay team.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/91 "2017-07-19T16:06:53Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’m responding to this post of yours: > > You’re the one who said self-identified patriotism is a fine measure of one’s patriotism. I don’t understand the confusion, except the part where you expect the burden of quantifying patriotism to fall on everybody except yourself, the one who is making the original claim. > > At any rate it should be evident that most Democrats seem to equate patriotism with service and citizenship, whereas most Republicans do not. That’s pretty striking if true. Of course, if I’m wrong, all you have to do is explain how to quantify Republican patriotism. Easy enough, right? I said that I think self-identified patriotism is a reasonably good (“fine” was the word I used I think) measurement of patriotism, or at least I don’t think we’ve identified a better one yet. You twisted that into “so many Republicans [are] content to define patriotism as saying the magic phrase “I am a patriot””. Do you understand the difference between a _measurement_ and a _definition_? More Republicans than Democrats felt that they came closer to meeting their own definition of patriotism, whatever that definition is. Measuring that fact is not the same as saying that their definition of patriotism consists solely of saying a magic phrase, which appears to be your claim. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/92 "2017-07-19T16:08:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Man, I gotta say that we see a lot of bad apologies on this MB, but that’s one of the best I’ve seen in a long time. Couldn’t have said it better myself!! I think you mean analogies, not apologies. 😃 And it is a good one. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/93 "2017-07-19T16:08:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No. > > They’re too smart. > > Smart enough to get what a poll question like that is really asking, anyway. So now they’re deciphering the secret meaning behind the question “How patriotic are you?” Your posts get more and more entertaining with each iteration. Please continue. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/94 "2017-07-19T16:13:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > As newly sworn immigrants have read, studied, and taken tests on all that material, they probably would have a pretty high level of “patriotism” based on that metric. Certainly higher than most natural born citizens. I suspect you’re right about that. My post was about **Happy Fun Ball** ’s level of knowledge vs the average immigrant citizen. I made no comment about natural born citizens. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/95 "2017-07-19T16:19:55Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Then you missed his point. I would say his point was that _just_ waving a flag does not make you a patriot. Any theory on why he didn’t use the word “just” in his post then? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > IMHO, the harder one waves that flag, the less likely they are committed to actually sacrificing their comfort or convenience for the good of the country. Oh I don’t know about that. The Honor Guard “waves the flag” pretty damn hard, but I think they’re quite committed to “actually sacrificing their comfort or convenience for the good of the country”. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Patriotism isn’t what you say, whether it be singing the national anthem louder, waving the flag harder, eating more hot dogs on the fourth of july, or even how you answer a question on a survey. Patriotism is what you do. Patriotism is the ideals that you uphold. Patriotism is helping out your fellow citizens, whether they are poor, minorities, gay or transgendered. Patriotism is putting the needs of the country above your personal wants or desires. I applaud you for having the courage to offer your own definition of patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/96 "2017-07-19T16:24:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Oh I don’t know about that. The Honor Guard “waves the flag” pretty damn hard, but I think they’re quite committed to “actually sacrificing their comfort or convenience for the good of the country”. Do you have a cite for this? The video you linked doesn’t include any actual flag waving (the only flags touched by the guard are tiny, and they are not waved at all – just very gently and carefully placed around the tomb). In fact, in my years in the military, I don’t ever recall seeing a servicemember in uniform actually waving a flag – carrying and placing, sure… but waving? I don’t remember a single instance. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/97 "2017-07-19T16:26:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So now they’re deciphering the secret meaning behind the question “How patriotic are you?” Oh, it’s no big secret when a question is _that_ loaded. Obviously, it’s enough to fool Republicans, though. > [@](#): > > Your posts get more and more entertaining with each iteration. Please continue. Somehow, I doubt you’re actually all that entertained. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/98 "2017-07-19T16:29:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Any theory on why he didn’t use the word “just” in his post then? > > Oh I don’t know about that. The Honor Guard “waves the flag” pretty damn hard, but I think they’re quite committed to “actually sacrificing their comfort or convenience for the good of the country”. > > I applaud you for having the courage to offer your own definition of patriotism. You left out his interesting points about insurance premiums. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/99 "2017-07-19T16:30:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? The video you linked doesn’t include any actual flag waving (the only flags touched by the guard are tiny, and they are not waved at all – just very gently and carefully placed around the tomb). > > In fact, in my years in the military, I don’t ever recall seeing a servicemember in uniform actually waving a flag – carrying and placing, sure… but waving? I don’t remember a single instance. I thought **k9bfriender** and I both (and **Sage Rat** , but I’ll leave it to him to tell me if I’m right or wrong) understood “wave the flag” as a metaphor for overt displays of what-is-traditionally-thought-of-as patriotism: things like saying the Pledge of Allegiance, singing the national anthem, flying an American flag, etc. If he was actually talking about the physical act of ‘waving’ a flag, then I don’t have a cite for that, and I’m not going to bother to look for one. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/100 "2017-07-19T16:31:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, it’s no big secret when a question is _that_ loaded. Obviously, it’s enough to fool Republicans, though. > > Somehow, I doubt you’re actually all that entertained. Do you feel like Gallup is a pollster who has exhibited a past pattern of asking “loaded” questions? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627.md?page=6)