# Why are Republicans generally more patriotic than Democrats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 19, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627 "2017-07-19T05:03:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/101 "2017-07-19T16:33:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You left out his interesting points about insurance premiums. Yes, I divided his post up and left out the parts that I wasn’t responding to. It was an interesting point, but I’d prefer if this thread did not devolve into an attack on and defense of my personal level of patriotism. The points I chose not to respond to seem like they might lead things that way, and I’d rather avoid that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/102 "2017-07-19T16:33:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Honestly, I wasn’t intending to belittle Democrats. Bullshit. Next? > [@](#): > > I thought I made a perfectly reasonable post in the other thread. No, it was as poisoned as this new OP, not “reasonable” at all. You present no factual evidence to support the claim, as has already been pounded into you. > [@](#): > > **ElvisL1ves** got the ball rolling on this discussion with his posts #157, #172, and #185. This thread was probably fueled largely by annoyance over his nitpick of the word “yet” and continued insistence making an issue of it. No, that was an attempt to get you to admit the idea you somehow have that equates patriotism with jingoism, a point you have made no sign of understanding. It was so “nitpicky” that you thought it appropriate to start a whole new thread, one which I hope has enlightened you somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/103 "2017-07-19T16:33:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I thought _k9bfriender_ and I both (and **Sage Rat** , but I’ll leave it to him to tell me if I’m right or wrong) understood “wave the flag” as a metaphor for overt displays of what-is-traditionally-thought-of-as patriotism: things like saying the Pledge of Allegiance, singing the national anthem, flying an American flag, etc. If he was actually talking about the physical act of ‘waving’ a flag, then I don’t have a cite for that, and I’m not going to bother to look for one. Even if this is the case, ceremonies like the flag-placing at the Tomb are much more subtle and dignified than overt. If this is what they meant, I’d say that flag-bedecked pickup trucks, giant flags over one’s property, giant flag pins, and the like, are much better examples of this metaphorical “waving the flag” than the very quiet, understated, and dignified cermonies like those at the Tomb. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/104 "2017-07-19T16:35:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Honestly, I wasn’t intending to belittle Democrats. This is rather hard to believe. If you weren’t intending to belittle Democrats, then why didn’t you phrase the thread title more accurately with respect to the poll – something like “Why do more Republicans identify as patriotic than Democrats?”? That would have been a fact-based way to begin this discussion. It’s similar to my suspicion of folks who start threads titled something like “why are black people inherently stupider than white people?” based on test scores statistics, when a fact-based title would have been “why do black people, on average, score lower on various tests than white people”? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/105 "2017-07-19T16:35:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Any theory on why he didn’t use the word “just” in his post then? Only that it would be assumed by most who read his phrase. If he would like to clarify, he is welcome to, but I do not believe he meant it exclusively. > [@](#): > > Oh I don’t know about that. The Honor Guard “waves the flag” pretty damn hard, but I think they’re quite committed to “actually sacrificing their comfort or convenience for the good of the country”. As iiandyiiii pointed out they do very little, if any, literal flag waving. But in any case, are they “just waving a flag”, or are they honoring the flag according to their duties, which they signed up for knowing that there would be sacrifice, hardship, and possibly even death associated with their decision? IOW, it is not their devotion to a piece of cloth on a stick that matters, but the people and ideals that it represents. > [@](#): > > I applaud you for having the courage to offer your own definition of patriotism. Well, thanks? Is that you disagreeing with it, a different criticism of it, or do you accept it as a valid definition? (One that you may not necessarily hold yourself.) If I were to define patriotism in those terms in a survey, and then ask you if you were “extremely patriotic”, “very patriotic”, “somewhat patriotic”, or “not very patriotic”, how would you answer? If you have a different definition of patriotism, I would love to hear it, and I would be willing to answer the survey question in the light of your definition. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/106 "2017-07-19T16:38:22Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Bullshit. Next? > > No, it was as poisoned as this new OP, not “reasonable” at all. You present no factual evidence to support the claim, as has already been pounded into you. > > No, that was an attempt to get you to admit the idea you somehow have that equates patriotism with jingoism, a point you have made no sign of understanding. It was so “nitpicky” that you thought it appropriate to start a whole new thread, one which I hope has enlightened you somewhat. What I’ve been enlightened to thus far is that you and I have _radically_ different worldviews, with apparently quite disparate definitions for terms like “factual evidence”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/107 "2017-07-19T16:42:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What I’ve been enlightened to thus far is that you and I have _radically_ different worldviews, with apparently quite disparate definitions for terms like “factual evidence”. You have factual evidence that more Republicans self-identify as patriotic (and extremely patriotic) than Democrats. That’s the only evidence that poll provides. Entirely subjective concepts like patriotism don’t exactly lend themselves to factual evidence gathering. If a poll said that 75% of Americans identify themselves as “morally and spiritually powerful”, and only 35% of Canadians, would you take that as evidence that Americans are significantly more “morally and spiritually powerful” than Canadians, or merely that Americans are more likely to identify themselves as such? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/108 "2017-07-19T16:44:16Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Patriotism is what you do. Patriotism is the ideals that you uphold. Patriotism is helping out your fellow citizens, whether they are poor, minorities, gay or transgendered. A far-righter could easily say, “Patriotism means not allowing your country to have immoral perversion like same-sex marriage, and preventing the murder of the unborn.” It’s a Rorschach Blot and everyone portrays their political ideals onto their definition of “patriotism.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/109 "2017-07-19T16:46:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > A far-righter could easily say, “Patriotism means not allowing your country to have immoral perversion like same-sex marriage, and preventing the murder of the unborn.” It’s a Rorschach Blot and everyone portrays their political ideals onto their definition of “patriotism.” And thus a factual discussion (and the OP’s assertion) about non-factual concepts like “patriotism” is pretty silly. We might as well be arguing about which Americans are better-loved by God. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/110 "2017-07-19T16:46:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You left out his interesting points about insurance premiums. Yeah, I remember those but I’m not sure exactly where to find them. I do know that the thing I hear most often from my Red State family when we are talking about healthcare is “I don’t understand why you care. Your healthcare costs aren’t going to be affected, what’s in it for you?”. And they don’t get it. But I’m done with reasoned responses to Ditka, this is just another trolling thread like the 4th of July one. I remember a lot of Dems gave very well thought out responses about what their country meant for them and the response was just sort of, “Oh, you are all a bunch of overthinking navel gazers but you still hate America.” And, BTW, The Chicago Bears suck. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/111 "2017-07-19T16:52:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I now believe that it is fairly well-established that Republicans generally are more patriotic than Democrats. **Why is that so?** I’ll admit I didn’t read through three pages of posts so I’m just responding to the original post here. And my response if your premise is flawed. The poll didn’t establish that Republicans are more patriotic than Democrats. It established that Republicans call themselves more patriotic than Democrats do. This may reflect that Democrats have a higher standard for patriotism than Republicans have. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/112 "2017-07-19T16:52:31Z")
And if there was a poll in which people were asked to define themselves as either Homosexual Heterosexual Very Heterosexual Extremely Heterosexual Extremely and Very Heterosexual The Most Heterosexual Person that ever walked the Freaking Earth would you suspect that people that ONLY answered “heterosexual” might really be gay? Would you think the guys that answered “The Most Heterosexual Person That Ever Walked The Freaking Earth” was more heterosexual than the guy that just said “heterosexual”? ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/113 "2017-07-19T16:52:53Z")
My opinion? People need to spend less time worrying about looking patriotic & spend more time _being_ patriotic. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/114 "2017-07-19T16:55:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What I’ve been enlightened to thus far is that you and I have _radically_ different worldviews, with apparently quite disparate definitions for terms like “factual evidence”. Yes, I do think \*factual \*has a definition, and so does _jingoism_. You obviously do not. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You have factual evidence that more Republicans self-identify as patriotic (and extremely patriotic) than Democrats. That’s the only evidence that poll provides. Entirely subjective concepts like patriotism don’t exactly lend themselves to factual evidence gathering. Fake news! > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > The Chicago Bears suck. Non-debatable points like that don’t belong in Great Debates. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/115 "2017-07-19T16:56:50Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, thanks? Is that you disagreeing with it, a different criticism of it, or do you accept it as a valid definition? (One that you may not necessarily hold yourself.) I’m not disagreeing with it, or criticizing. I’d say that it adds to our discussion here and yes, I’d call it a “valid” definition (one among many possibilities). > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If I were to define patriotism in those terms in a survey, and then ask you if you were “extremely patriotic”, “very patriotic”, “somewhat patriotic”, or “not very patriotic”, how would you answer? I’d probably call myself “very”, according to your definition. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If you have a different definition of patriotism, I would love to hear it, and I would be willing to answer the survey question in the light of your definition. I’ll give it some thought. I haven’t really tried to formulate my own definition yet, but if I come up with something that I think is worth sharing, I will. The ‘traditional’ definition is something along the lines of this: > [@](#): > > having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one’s country. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/116 "2017-07-19T16:57:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I said that I think self-identified patriotism is a reasonably good (“fine” was the word I used I think) measurement of patriotism, or at least I don’t think we’ve identified a better one yet. You twisted that into “so many Republicans [are] content to define patriotism as saying the magic phrase “I am a patriot””. Do you understand the difference between a _measurement_ and a _definition_? That’s silly. Directly in the OP you equated the measurement with the definition when you titled it “Why are Republicans generally more patriotic than Democrats?” Besides, there can be no measurement without a working definition. Again, it’s notable that you seem curiously averse to providing your own definition. A better question might be “Why are Republicans more likely to say they are patriots?” or “How do you live out patriotic values?” My perception of Republicans is that they put great importance simply on saying that you’re patriotic, sometimes to the exclusion of actual deeds. When I ask them what patriotism means, the answers are usually to the effect of the beliefs you have to state. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/117 "2017-07-19T17:00:20Z")
Can we just please separate some issues here? First, there’s clearly a difference in how Americans see themselves in relation to their country. Just look at the fucking poll. Forget political parties, just look at how young people describe their patriotism compared to old people. There are differences, and there’s surely reasons for these differences. It’s just a fact, and it isn’t worth anyone’s time to quibble about it. Second, there’s an implication – which honestly I don’t believe the OP is arguing in this thread, but I have suspicions that he does indeed harbor – that there is something wrong with people who do not share one’s own opinion of patriotism. An in fact, many of my friends from my side of the aisle are doing the exact same thing: looking down on Republicans as being worse people because they self-identify as being more patriotic. I consider all of this thinking divisive bullshit over a non-issue. Folks from my side want an inclusive United States that doesn’t look down on people because they believe in different gods, or dress funny, or don’t fit into cis gendered hetero whatever whatever buzzword categories. But holy cow, if you put too many American flags on your clothes, car, or house, there’s something wrong with you! Get the hell over it. Same message the conservative side: I think t-shirts that half flag-waving eagles pooping on bin Laden are in terrible taste… _so I don’t wear them_. That doesn’t make me less of an American. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/118 "2017-07-19T17:03:24Z")
I agree with the premise of the OP, but what I don’t accept is that this is necessarily a positive attribute. There’s probably not a lot of argument that Republicans would be more likely to adopt a stance like “country first”, whereas Democrats would be more likely to say “principle first”. Which is better? Therein lies part of the ideological divide. If I were to pick some words at random to describe the two sides, for “Republican” or “conservative” I’d say things like rigid, traditional, conformist; for “Democrat” or “liberal” I’d say flexible, analytical, open-minded. The traditional strain of conservative would probably pick more flattering terms for their side, but that’s the general idea. The downside of the Republican style of patriotism is that it tends to be unconditional – they are patriotic whether it’s deserved or not. Thus when the Vietnam war become hugely controversial, the pro and con sides lined up pretty much along ideological lines, and ditto for the second Iraq war. Similarly, Democrats are more inclined to embrace global initiatives while Republicans are more nationalistic and insular, which makes it harder to achieve initiatives that have to be global like climate change agreements; in fact, thanks mostly to Republican influence, the US has failed to ratify or is not a signatory to a great many UN initiatives. It’s really the Republican regard for personal self-interest over the general public good playing out in the international arena in the form of self-interested nationalism over the global good. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/119 "2017-07-19T17:07:47Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > That’s silly. Directly in the OP you equated the measurement with the definition when you titled it “Why are Republicans generally more patriotic than Democrats?” Besides, there can be no measurement without a working definition. Again, it’s notable that you seem curiously averse to providing your own definition. It’s a tad ironic that this came just after I did provide a definition, but I suspect you were typing while I posted. I don’t think it’s typical for pollsters to supply a definition for words when asking survey questions. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627/120 "2017-07-19T17:10:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you feel like Gallup is a pollster who has exhibited a past pattern of asking “loaded” questions? I don’t know about Gallup, but the OP seems to be quite proficient at doing so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-generally-more-patriotic-than-democrats/791627.md?page=7)