# Why are Republicans pushing to extend the Bush tax cuts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945 "2010-07-25T14:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/261 "2010-07-28T04:24:17Z")
But what percentage of $0 are you going to get out of the stay at home mom? Are you going to squeeze the senior citizen for what little they have to eat and heat their home with? You can’t always get any blood out of a stone, no matter how hard you squeeze. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/262 "2010-07-28T04:24:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html) here is the IRS analysis which will explain to you who got the best out of the Bush tax cuts. I can not believe people don’t know this. The facts have a well known liberal bias. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/263 "2010-07-28T04:36:24Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > But what percentage of $0 are you going to get out of the stay at home mom? Are you going to squeeze the senior citizen for what little they have to eat and heat their home with? You can’t always get any blood out of a stone, no matter how hard you squeeze. I didn’t want to get into it but here goes. A stay at home mom is supported, in theory, by a husband paying into the system. His tax rate affects her directly. Same goes for a recent HS graduate living at home. As for seniors, well, that is another story. In my opinion they have paid their dues. Many of them are taxed on their benefits if they are high enough. Also, many of them are concerned about their children making a decent living and may oppose tax hikes even if it improves their situation. My point is that, ideally, only a small percentage of the working population should be exempt from taxes. As we approach 50% of the working population that pays nothing in federal taxes then we have to be concerned that there is no disincentive for them to vote to increase taxes even on the poorest taxpayers. And, with almost a majority, they effectively have the key to the Treasury. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/264 "2010-07-28T09:32:32Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > My point is that, ideally, only a small percentage of the working population should be exempt from taxes. As we approach 50% of the working population that pays nothing in federal taxes then we have to be concerned that there is no disincentive for them to vote to increase taxes even on the poorest taxpayers. And, with almost a majority, they effectively have the key to the Treasury. Meaningless. American politicians don’t pass laws according to the desires of the people who elected them; they pass laws according to who gave them the most “campaign contributions” aka bribe money. It doesn’t matter who the voters have an incentive to tax; it matters who the campaign contributors have an incentive to tax. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/265 "2010-07-28T11:53:50Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > **Sam Stone** , unlike the twit who couldn’t even define the word rights, nor the shortbus kid who responded to a line of my post while editing out the vast majority that pre-empitively explained why he was wrong, I think you have given some thought to this. I’m sure **Sam Stone** is flattered, but the posters you are mentioning are being insulted, which is not allowed in this forum. Don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/266 "2010-07-28T15:09:34Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > > > Do you even understand the concept of rights? Judging from the nonsense you posted I am assuming you do not. > > > > [Rights - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights) > > > > Do you? I’m not saying taqht I view everything the poster lists as rights but you seem to have a very specific definition of rights to the exclusion of all other definitions and that doesn;'t seem supportable based on common perceptions of what constitutes rights. > > As Obama stated, the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Do you have the right to seek out an education? Absolutely. Must the government provide you with an education? Of course not. Same goes for healthcare. In this country you have a right to a public education. Noone can deny you access to the public education system. Does teh constitution guarantee you a puiblic education but like I said that is a very narrow definition fo rights. The original list seems to think of rights in a much more expansive way than that but your definitionof what constitutes a right seems to be limited to the rights outlined in the first ten amendments. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/267 "2010-07-28T15:20:29Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > I mean how is it fairly characterized as based on “lies?” I don’t think the sunset provision is a deception, it was a combination of an accounting mechanism (to lower the cost of the tax cuts) and a political accomodation. Everyone knew that there wold be another fight when it came time for the sunset. Just like everyone knew there would be a huge fight over estate taxes this year (still waiting for that one to materialize). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/268 "2010-07-28T15:23:37Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > No one ever promised that they wouldn’t try to renew them or that this would be the last time they’d argue for lower taxes. Oh, I see. Well I would say that the tax cuts were based on lies because of teh “dynamic scoring” that was presented alongside the proposal for tax cuts taht showed the tax cuts paying for themselves. There were in fact some tax cuts that did pay for themselves in the short term by surrendering long term revenues (for example letting corporations pay 5% income tax on its foreign source income if they reported it that one year led to a huge amount of income being reported. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/269 "2010-07-28T15:27:28Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Passing a tax cut with a sunset provision hoping that it will be politically hard to not extend the temporary cut strikes me as a sort of crossing the fingers behind the back disingenuous political trap. Especially now that they are trying to categorize it as a take hike. Its just sleazy. If you can’t see the repugnance of this, then I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t think abnyoen was duped by the sunset provision. We all knew this would be a fight when the tax cuts were about to expire. It is in fact sleazy to characterize Democrats refusal to extend the tax cuts for the rich as a tax increase. If we were talking about the Democrats refusal to renew something like the AMT patch which has happened every year for decades then yeah, I could see calling that a Democratic tax increase but this doesn’t really fit the bill. I also don’t understand what is so god awful about raising taxses to the Clinton era rates. I paid the top marginal rates during CLinton and Bush and I gotta say that for a working stiff, it didn’t make that much of a difference. The people who REALLY saw a big difference was the investor class (and I don’t mean people with 401(k)s and IRAs). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/270 "2010-07-28T15:30:34Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > If the tax breaks for the wealthy > > They were tax breaks for everyone, when you do what you just did it gives aid and comfort to those who accuse the Left of class warfare. They were deficit funded tax breaks for everyone but the benefit was concentrated at the very tippy top and the very bottom. They virtually eliminated the income tax for the poor (we weren’t really collecting much from them anyway but the principle of a shared sacrfice was violated), they cut taxes a little bit for everyone else but they REALLY cut taxes for the top 0.1%. You were carrying mroe than your historically proportionate share of taxes if you made more than 80K and less than about 500K but if you were making more than 500K, you were doing pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/271 "2010-07-28T15:32:06Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Politics is well known to be the art of the possible. Tell that to the monolithic Republican caucus. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/272 "2010-07-28T15:39:16Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Tax cuts were actually a quite reasonable way to combat the effects of the recession. The problem was that the recession was again a demand one (the bubble resulted in a massive oversupply of lots of stuff - many companies wrote off billions of dollars worth of inventory) so tax cuts which heavily favored the rich were not all that helpful. That explains the very slow growth in GNP and jobs for the next three years. So accusations of class warfare had some merit, though I expect the goal was to give Republican donors more rather to give the average American less. > > The second problem was that there was no attempt at increasing revenues when the economy recovered, even when it could have been justified to pay for the great patriotic war in Iraq. Instead they hid the cost as an emergency allocation every year. Greenspan also held interest rates low well beyond the point of need, which contributed to the housing bubble and our current problems. I agree that tax cuts can be a good stimulus. I once suggested having a payroll tax holiday as part of the stimulus. The problem is that the tax cut had a sunset provision of 7 to 9 years. There is something to be said for the psychological effects of one year tax cuts versus tax cuts that seem more permanent promoting more spending instead of more saving (which is why things like unemployment is such a good stimulus). ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/273 "2010-07-28T15:40:27Z")
**gonzo** , this chart shows me (see Table 4) that while those earning over $68k (and I’m having a seriously hard time calling that “rich,” but never mind for now), “got” 67% of the Bush tax cuts (because, naturally, they were paying more to begin with), they ended up paying a greater proportion of all taxes after the cuts than before, and the bottom brackets ended up paying a lesser proportion. [http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/323.html](http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/323.html) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/274 "2010-07-28T15:51:42Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > **gonzo** , this chart shows me (see Table 4) that while those earning over $68k (and I’m having a seriously hard time calling that “rich,” but never mind for now), … Sure, when you establish cut points for a distribution in order to obfuscate, you end up having a seriously hard time. The gross distinctions in that table mean that Bill Gates and I are in the same income category. Voila - the Bush tax cuts did not disproportionately benefit the very wealthy! > [@](#): > > “got” 67% of the Bush tax cuts (because, naturally, they were paying more to begin with), they ended up paying a greater proportion of all taxes after the cuts than before, and the bottom brackets ended up paying a lesser proportion. > > [http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/323.html](http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/323.html) And they hurt the economy for everyone. Some just felt the associated pain more acutely than others. This gets to why I don’t think that an “equal pain” rationale for tax policy makes much sense. If you are benefitting way more than I am from the present system, you have a much greater interest in perpetuating it, don’t you? I don’t have a problem with the taxes I pay, because I want to help America continue to survive. However, it doesn’t make sense that my “pain” should be the same as Bill Gates; my “pleasure” sure hasn’t been. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/275 "2010-07-28T16:32:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > > > > > Do you even understand the concept of rights? Judging from the nonsense you posted I am assuming you do not. > > > > > > [Rights - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights) > > > > > > Do you? I’m not saying taqht I view everything the poster lists as rights but you seem to have a very specific definition of rights to the exclusion of all other definitions and that doesn;'t seem supportable based on common perceptions of what constitutes rights. > > > > As Obama stated, the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Do you have the right to seek out an education? Absolutely. Must the government provide you with an education? Of course not. Same goes for healthcare. > > In this country you have a right to a public education. Noone can deny you access to the public education system. Does teh constitution guarantee you a puiblic education but like I said that is a very narrow definition fo rights. The original list seems to think of rights in a much more expansive way than that but your definitionof what constitutes a right seems to be limited to the rights outlined in the first ten amendments. You are incorrect. You have no RIGHT to be provided with a public education. You have the right to get an education without government interfering with your pursuit. The fact that government has set up a public system that does not turn people away does not make it a right. If, tomorrow, the government simply did not have the money to provide public education, are you telling me your rights have been violated? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/276 "2010-07-28T16:59:59Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > > [@Huerta88](#): > > > > Agreed on Greenspan, agreed on not matching revenues to spending (though I’d have done it by spending control, which everyone is right to blast GWB for not taking at all seriously), and agreed (if this is what you’re suggesting) that Iraq was a stupid decision and waste of massive amounts of money. > > Cut spending first, then cut taxes - not when the cuts started, during the recession, but later. I agree but the nature of the tax cut is important. > [@](#): > > The correctness of the war is not at issue - it should have been politically feasible to say that though they hated to raise taxes, everyone would have to sacrifice to keep us free from the WMD threat (cue patriotic music here.) That is what happened during other wars. But that would have required a bit of reality, leadership and political courage, and Bush always took the easy way out. Just my conspiracy theory but I think that the Bush administration was doing everything it possibly could to make the war as painless to the American public as possible. Everything from the tax cuts instead of tax increases to the use of mercenaries instead of enlisted personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/277 "2010-07-28T17:08:08Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > But in trying to explain my position, I find I may have to modify it. Are you saying that you have been misunderstood or that you have been doped? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/278 "2010-07-28T17:10:33Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > > [@yorick73](#): > > > > > > I agree with you. My opinion is that everyone (or most) should pay into the system. Ideally, the percentage not paying into the system should be quite small. The problem arises when we approach a point where almost a majority of the country is paying ZERO federal income taxes. Nobody can blame people for voting in their own interests. Invariably, over time, those who are exempted from federal income taxes will not think twice about raising taxes on those paying into the system if this is required to keep their favored programs intact. There is no consequence for those who do not pay into the system so why should they care what the tax rates are for everyone else? > > > > I would point out once again, federal income taxes are not the be all and end all of contributions to the system. > > You are correct. But, in order to contribute money to the system, which is then spent on things that we choose, you must pay taxes. Yes and i’m saying that payroll taxes, state and local taxes, and even sales taxes are contributions to the system. For example social security receipts have been aprt of the general budget since LBJ. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/279 "2010-07-28T17:11:35Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > > [@DanBlather](#): > > > > > > So [here](http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2010.pdf)is that data on total taxes paid by income level. The idea that the poor get a free ride is just another lie that conservatives like to spew. > > > > If you only want to count taxes other than federal income taxes, then sure I guess you’re right but if you ONLY count federal income taxwes (which accounts for almost forty percent of all government revenues) then the rich are getting soaked and noone else is paying very much at all. > > And if you ignore income tax then the poor are getting soaked and the rich are getting off easy. But why would you ignore either one unless you wanted to deceive gullible people into reaching faulty conclusions so that you can personally benefit? That was my point. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945/280 "2010-07-28T17:14:17Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > But what percentage of $0 are you going to get out of the stay at home mom? Are you going to squeeze the senior citizen for what little they have to eat and heat their home with? You can’t always get any blood out of a stone, no matter how hard you squeeze. A stay at home spouse is filing taxes on a joint tax return. Even teh senior citizen on a fixed income should contribute to the system. It can be a very small amount like the woman in the story with Jesus but rich or poor, everyone must sacrifice something. Of course the sacrifice of a dollar or even a flat percentage of income is far greater for the poor than it is for the rich, so we have a progressive system, even a drastically progressive system but not paying anything detaches you from the system in a way that is probably unhealthy for our democracy over the long term. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-republicans-pushing-to-extend-the-bush-tax-cuts/547945.md?page=15)